...to think too many parents are too soft these days?

[becominglessofalurker]

Maybe this isn't a recent thing nd I have just started to notice it since close family nd I have started families but most parents I come across let their kids get away with murder.
To clarify, I don't believe in smacking and think good discipline can be achieved without it.
I would be mortified if my dc acted the way I see many children acting, including my nephews.
Although I would never say anything directly, as I think parenting tactics are very personal choices, it annoys me as I feel like my SIL and BIL kids are setting a bad example for mine.

Of course manners are important mrsfrumble. I should explain it better. To use ur shoe example - nephews have been asked to get their shoes cos it's time to go nd they have either completely ignored the request or flatly refused. SIL then just looks lost nd continues to say pls over nd over.

I know what you mean OP! Some parents at DC's prep school let their children slap them and shout at them in the playground and then afterwards the parents ply them with sweets and chocolate! Really riles me up. It's nothing new however, like Mrs said, there's great parents and not so great parents and I guess there always will be.

I know what you mean OP.

If I'd asked your SILs kid to get their shoes, nicely, calmly and using the word 'please', I'd expect them to go and get their shoes without too much in the way of fannying about. And in deciding to ask them that, I'd have made the decision not to get off their case until they'd got their shoes. So they'd get one reminder, then I'd look for a sanction (usually the withdrawal of whatever they were playing with or something), give them a warning and then follow through with it. Then I'd make them get their shoes, all the while making it clear they could have avoided me being a pain in their arse by simply doing as they were told in the first place. It's not failed me yet- the average kid soon realises that when I'm doing the asking, the easiest thing to do is what they are asked to do.

I totally agree and with all this bollocks about never punishing a chid letting them self punish is a load of shit

I think it's a total cop out the middle class who don't know how to In force boundires there's a lady who lived on my council estate you used to let her kids decided when they went to bed ,and that they wanted sweets for breakfast and not brush their teeth eventually they were removed by ss but when the middle class do it it's dressed up as some awesome parenting technique

... And I between the great and not-so-great are the vast majority who are average, with good and bad moments (sometimes in public).

I agree with Mrs D that there seems to be a bit of a moral panic over not very much. There's certainly more "advice" and introspection surrounding parenting these days; think of the all the thousands of websites, forums and blogs devoted to the subject that our parents didn't have the "benefit" of being able to consult!

And beyond teaching the moral basics of not stealing, lying, bullying and having basic respect for others, everyone is going to have a slightly different opinion about what matters in terms of children's behavior (see the earlier posts about jumping off a shed vs. calling your mother a bitch).

How old are your nephews and your own children OP? Maybe as they become a bit more aware your children will realize that although your ILs are less strict, it doesn't necessarily make for a calmer or happier household and they'll appreciate your approach more.

For those that might be interested that was the first and last time that dd called me a b!€$h (to my face that is) :) when she had calmed down we talked about why that was not acceptable and we also congratulated her for not following the herd and asking first (even if she didn't like the answer). The important thing from our point of view was that she listened however reluctantly to our words of wisdom.

Children don't always agree with our point of view and the important thing for us was that she did listen and didn't bow down to peer pressure. As the old adage goes...names will never hurt us.

Pick your battles was the best advice I ever learned from my parents.

My DCs were reasonably obedient and popular with friends and liked by friends parents. They are grown up now and are sensible adults.

Funnily, so are nearly all their friends, the spoilt ones, the lazy ones, the show off ones. They all turned out fine. Except for maybe the one or two bad apples who inexplicably went off the rails.

So I wouldn't worry.

'Self-punish'? What fresh hell is this???

Sorry Idefix, I feel a bit rude for using your post (and the response to it) as an example . The "The important thing from our point of view is that she listened" line from your last post is the point I was trying to make! To other parents the important thing would be her bad language, and others would have no problem with their child jumping off the shed in the first place.

All of the children will probably turn out fine (apart from possible broken bones!) despite their parents different priorities.

doziedoozie yes most DC turn
Out just fine, but a bit of discipline doesn't half make the journey nicer for the children themselves and those around them.

DD2 has class mates who no doubt be just fine, but believe me their teachers and peers could have done without their constant cheek, smart Alex comments, low level sillyness and petty bullying.

They would have been happier without bollockings they got from the primary HT. He'd certainly have been happy to save his breath.

Are SIL's kids older than yours OP?

Agree! I see this all the time in my job. Threats made but never carried out. What's the point!

I also think bad behaviour is becoming the norm in restaurant and cinemas and its putting me off going out more and more.
I'm fed up of having my enjoyment of films and meals out ruined by selfish parents who do nothing to stop bad behaviour.

Depends what you mean by 'turn out fine'. I could imagine some of these kids being the subject of anguished future MN threads by despairing spouses, in-laws or work colleagues.

Hmmm, but at which point do we stop blaming the parents and start ascribing personal responsibility?

Maybe the rude spouse causing angst in the relationships topic behaves that way because his parents didn't discipline him enough, or maybe his parents tried hard but he's just an arse?

Oh, I'd never say it was all down to bad parenting. I think unless you are extremely good or bad all you ever do as a parent is make some difference to how your kids turn out, from hardly any to say, 20%. But if you could improve your parenting and thereby result in your child being 20% less arse, you would, wouldn't you?

No worries MrsFrumble. I have tendency to passionate outbursts...don't know where dd gets it from!!

I think I probably didn't explain myself well. But yes for DH and myself it is more important to see the bigger picture, outbursts aside.

Lol AbbieHoffmansAfro I know what you mean. Although I do think that some people see things that other see as negatives as strengths.

I have occasionally been told that ds is "soft", read weak, not boyish enough because he is not boisterous, football mad, outgoing...as I say each to their own ;)

We can only hope the values we live by are the ones our children choose to adopt. That and do a lot of controlled breathing in public.

Despite all the internet introspection, there isn't enough consensus on what constitutes "good parenting" (or at least the finer points) to guarantee the elimination of the 20%.

If there was MN would be very, very dull!

I love it when people say they all turn out fine in the end

I read on here recently that studies have shown that children turn out much like their parents, regardless of how you parent them. Modelling is key, let them see you being nice, polite, sensible, humorous, creative or whatever qualities you want for them. They'll pick up the bad bits too, not much you can do about that except be as good a person as you can. Even their earning power and intelligence you're not going to change much, statistically, by everyday parenting decisions.