...to think too many parents are too soft these days?

[becominglessofalurker]

Maybe this isn't a recent thing nd I have just started to notice it since close family nd I have started families but most parents I come across let their kids get away with murder.
To clarify, I don't believe in smacking and think good discipline can be achieved without it.
I would be mortified if my dc acted the way I see many children acting, including my nephews.
Although I would never say anything directly, as I think parenting tactics are very personal choices, it annoys me as I feel like my SIL and BIL kids are setting a bad example for mine.

I totally agree with everyone saying consistency is the key.
Lonny, I am just using them as an example but I see lots of parents just giving up when their dc don't listen the 1st time round.

Great post Chenjin. I work with parents and young children and agree with OP. Young children need rules and boundaries and they need adults to be in charge of the overall situation. Too many parents want to be the good guy at all costs and either give in all the time or get involved in endless pleading and negotiating with very young children. It does the child no favours at all.

sounds like your thread is really about a specific set of parents rather than a generality op. Which is fine but changes the discussion a bit. It sounds like your sil is a bit lost and in need of being firm and consistent.

I think many of the pressures on children and their parents today - to pass tests at school, to be good little consumers to spend a huge amount of time on social media, makes good consistent parenting more difficult. it is possible but effort is required and time is short .., I tut at times (in my head) if I witness really poor behaviour. But adults have to lead by example and I see much worse behaviour from adults in public, so that is my concern, people being more bad tempered, impatient and intolerant, we cannot expect more from children than we do from ourselves.

I'm not sure that's completely true for the average Joe, Mrs DV. I remember (vaguely, through the mists of time, way back to the 70s....) that there were plenty of judgements made about parenting styles - although I don't recall the ^endless* negotiations by my DM and her friends that I see nowadays amongst my peers and friends - and those judgements were made by people outside your family and close friends. If your child had been misbehaving then you would certainly know about it - and if your child continued to misbehave while you did nothing about it then the whole village or locale would know about it, and judge.

op-how old are your children?

"Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers.”

Socrates 400BC

I think your SIL sounds ineffective rather than soft.

I think your SIL sounds ineffective rather than soft.

I don't raise my voice at my son, but I am firm and discipline him. I had a very frightening childhood where I was constantly shouted at and subjected to discipline which was little more than mental and violent abuse.

I do not want to do that to my son. I find it upsetting when you see parents who are constantly haranguing, shouting at and upbraiding their children. I wonder why they have them when they don't appear to enjoy being with them and just see them as units to be controlled rather than real people.

I tend to be of the opinion that if your behaviour wouldn't be acceptable to another adult it shouldn't be acceptable with a child either. So firm assertiveness is okay, aggressiveness, loss of control and shouting is wrong.

YANBU. I get cross at DH because he can be quite ineffectual at discipline. He is a loving, hands-on dad but he just can't seem to see flashpoints coming the way I can and when they arise he won't commit to saying no and really meaning it or even just time out. I hate it because I feel like I have by default become 'bad cop' but I won't let DD go feral. I have a horror of brats children raised by lazy parents but equally I don't want to be overly-critical.

It is a really difficult job this parenting malarkey

There were always different kinds of parents, but I think there are some trends nowadays that wasn't there back in my childhood.

You will find people comparing the way you treat children with the way you treat adults. That sounds like a good thing, but I've seen people suggesting (and others nodding in agreement) that you can't tell children what to do or limit them in any way unless you'd be willing to do the same thing to some stranger on the street.

A daft argument because it's your job to limit what they do. That's what parents are for.

Another one is "my DC is behaving horribly - I'm going to tell the school about it".

Schools can do their bit too, but it is mainly the parents job.

This is one reason among many other reasons that led to us choosing to live away from our families. As our children got older I found it harder and harder to watch things that I felt would be bad for children in the long run. Ironically I think we would be viewed as softer. We might be softer but we have always tried to be consistent and to set boundaries. My children are now in there mid teens and we feel v happy with how they are developing and growing up.

I don't think this has ever been very different through the ages, and it definitely happens with friends and social groups.

Last year we were at a social gathering where the children ranging from 5 to late teens were permitted (not actively stopped) to jump from a shed onto a trampoline (yes my eyes were on stalks). My dd asked me could she also do it and when I explained that she could not she called me a b!€*h! I did not chastise her there and then and allowed her to storm away from me. The other parents at the gathering were extremely disapproving that I had not addressed this and commented several times. It took a direct request from my DH to the host to stop the children jumping from the shed.

We were pretty much ejected from this group (no real loss) and it is still difficult now a year on, some say hello to us?!?

Everyone is different and everyone's standards are different and it is a case of suck it up I think.

I do find it my much easier visiting family now that we don't see each other so much...

Disagree totally. The 'worst' behaved kids I've seen out and about (and I don't think it's their fault, poor little things) are the ones whose parents are the least 'soft', ie whacking/shouting/swearing/ignoring. We would never,ever never smack our Ds and try to avoid shouting. I think many people would label us 'soft'. But my Ds is honestly much calmer and gentler than many children his age (am prepared to accept we got lucky though).

If you see me out with my DS, he is 8 but looks older please don't judge me as He has asd and does have melt downs.

I have done the NAS early bird course and also been on parenting courses.

OP, you are spot on.
I believe that too many people negotiate with their kids / allow the kids to make the rules. You are not your child's playmate, you're in charge of them and they should do what you damn well say! (If you can find a way to be both then great).

I don't advocate smacking or anything like that but a firm line is needed.

For example in this house bedtime means bedtime, not time to go up, faff around, demand a story and then eventually settle down 45 mins after bedtime. Bedtime is 7pm which means by 7 all DC's must be settled in bed. If they want stories etc.. then getting ready for bed begins at 6:40 to allow enough time.

I would never dream of offering my opinion unless asked. How other people parent their kids is up to them and it's not really anyone else's business.
If you think your nephews are teaching your DC bad habits then keep them away.

Last year we were at a social gathering where the children ranging from 5 to late teens were permitted (not actively stopped) to jump from a shed onto a trampoline (yes my eyes were on stalks). My dd asked me could she also do it and when I explained that she could not she called me a b!€*h! I did not chastise her there and then and allowed her to storm away from me..

Never mind anything else, calling their mother a b!€*h alone would have resulted in any child of mine being taken swiftly home, put to bed as soon as we got there and grounded for a week. Hopefully Nan and Granddad would have come to sit while I went back to the party without child!

Piper I always sympathise with parents dealing with tantrums but I do agree with the op to an extent.

Was at a birthday party at the weekend and one of the kids there displayed horrible behaviour. When he hurt my niece I told him off, calmly as I'm a childminder and used to dealing with inappropriate behaviour, his parents were horrified because they like him to be able to express himself freely.

I'm also seeing an increase in the negotiating parent and the 40 warning parent at softplays and parks. Its frustrating when I give 1 warning then a consequence to see other kids get away with murder.

im sure some parents are scared of their children,scared to discipline,scared to tell them no,scared to have to upset them

I completely agree that smacking nd shouting nd screaming doesn't work either but being firm and consistent is a must. A parent should parent therefore I can not agree with the whole "treat them like you would treat another adult".
Totally agree with maninawomansworld about the b**ch comment

Absolutely agree ilove - loads of parents are scared of their children and totally out of their depth with anything to do with behaviour management. Fine - everyone has to learn these skills, but it is not acceptable to cop out and let your child run wild because you can't be bothered to sort it

Agree totally, OP, except about it being recent!
Some parents seem almost scared of and apologetic to their DCs as they politely request that they refrain from doing X.
I remember seeing my now 23 YO DS being taunted by a another child as child's mother stood beside him. It was only as I marched across with face like thunder, looking daggers at her did she stay, "stop it now, darling, its not nice" I felt sorry for the poor child.
I agree with Mrsd : children do like and respect firm boundaries; they don't want to make their own calls about what's right and need guidance.

OP, your in laws are really making a rod for their own backs by not being consistent. It's a shame because time out (or naughty step) used wisely is a good way of giving everyone a few minutes to calm down, allowing parents to take a few deep breaths before quietly talking about incident and why is was unacceptable. Then drawing a line under it and

My DS when younger was particularly 'strong willed' and some weekends I did just want to give in to him (so blooming stubborn). I didn't though and soon these moments became less and less. Eventually he said one day in passing "you know Mum there is no point in arguing with you once you have made a decision because you won't change your mind". Wow I thought, maybe all that stress has been worth it after all.

It is hard though and I am glad to have got all that behind me.

Oh and you are right too OP, screaming and smacking are a sign that you have lost the plot and the argument.

*Then drawing a line under it and moving on .

A relative of mine is about to refuse to go on a paid-for family villa holiday precisely because of discipline issues with her BIL and SIL. While the children BIL and SIL have are mostly delightful ( so far), especially with people other than their parents, the endless drama of poor discipline, inconsistent parenting, tantrums etc is too much to put up with on holiday. It is an awful shame.

The stupid thing is, being crap with discipline and boundaries doesn't make anyone happy, the children least of all. You don't have to be a Victorian martinet, but children need to know where they stand and to have guidance. It is awful to see fundamentally lovely children being left to develop behaviours and expectations that will bring them nothing but sorrow in later life.

I don't understand why saying "please" is being wet and ineffectual. Isn't it just modeling good manners? If I say to my DS "it's time to go out, please go and get your shoes" it doesn't mean that getting his shoes is optional, but I want to reinforce that it's important to speak politely. Am I wrong?