To feel my colleague is trying to outdo me

[zeezeek]

In every bloody way!

She has just moved into our department from another part of the University. I've known her vaguely for years, but never really had much to do with her. She's the same grade as me, is really successful - brings in money, publishes etc etc, but she seems to have a problem with me.

It's really subtle PA type stuff, like making snipey comments about things, like telling me I'm rude if I make a sarky comment....then she will start bitching about other people in the department. Another thing, when people come in to our shared office to see me, she will talk over me. I had a colleague who's also a friend come in today to ask me for some advice about something I used to work on - but whatever I said, she interrupted with what she though the answer should be - which was complete rubbish btw. She also seems to be going behind my back and telling other people that I'm not doing my work properly, is constantly checking up on what I'm doing - wanting to know if I'm working on what I'm supposed to be. She's not my line manager! We're the same grade and have similar roles academically, but she is the course director of a course that I'm teaching on this semester, so she's always checking up on me, giving me things to do for the course and then telling me to changes parts of my lectures.

I know that I can be arrogant and gobby and have no diplomacy or tact - but I can't think of anything that I've said to her that would cause her to act this way, other than a throwaway comment once about how I never needed to work for exams (I didn't know then that she had to work very hard and revise constantly to get where she is). Can she still be pissed off with me because of that?

As Henry Kissinger said, the reason disputes are so vitriolic in academia is because the stakes are so low.

"I know that I can be arrogant and gobby and have no diplomacy or tact"

I think if you can recognise this in yourself, it's perhaps even more apparent to others. Most who have these character traits don't see it in themselves in my experience.

There's no need for her to be rude, but if your lack of diplomacy and tact, alongside gobby arrogance comes off at rude I doubt you'll have much come back whether you deal with this person to person or through a channel such as HR.

After reading the first line of your last paragraph, I think you have no ground to complain. Arrogant, gobby, no tact - I actually feel sorry for her!

You're an academic?

Be arrogant and gobby back. Constantly.

You don't want her as a friend, right?

'Hey - if you think me being sarky is rude, then why are you bitching about other people? Bit hypocritical, yeah?'

'Hey X, you clearly don't know anything about the topic Y is talking about, so can you stop interrupting so we can discuss what she came to ask ME? Thanks.'

'No, I'm not changing my lectures - I don't agree with your suggestions, I think they're better as they are - if you don't like it, do you want to discuss it with the HoD?'

And checking up on you? Spreading shit about you? Go to your HoD and tell them - 'I really thought you ought to know, as it's getting a bit awkward with people being told one thing then finding out it's not true...'

Fight fire with fire, I'm afraid.

Oh - and see if you can relocate rooms.

Oh dear, that comment was the death knell. Try and put yourself in her place.
If you really really want this 'relationship' to work, try a little humility. Ie, ask her advice on something, tell her your finding something difficult. In her eyes your the one that it all comes easy to. She would love to be needed, especially by you.

Yes, I'm an academic and actually the stakes are very high at the moment for all of us.

The HoD is an old friend of DH and I, so I'm not sure that bringing him into this situation is really a good idea because it may well give her more ammunition and end up with her spreading how I went running to my husband's friend for help....I've heard her say similar things about other people in the department, so don't think I'm over-reacting.

Whilst her ways are becoming a bit more widely known, and I've been there for years and so people know me (and, surprisingly, like me) - it does worry me what she's saying about me. Academia is a hot bed of bitchiness - so maybe I just need to be the bigger bitch

What Castlemilk said

We're very overcrowded so not much chance.

What Castlemilk said!

I think you need to rise above such behaviour. Why are any of you bitching as I assume you are older than 14?

Stop being gobby and arrogant and aim for calm and professional and you will then deflect such behaviour as you appear mature and in total control.

You sound very over-enthused at being an ACADEMIC. It sounds ridiculous really. Those that truly are don't feel the need to be so crass, or none that I know of do this anyway. There are good academics and there are others, the 'also ran', like in any other job. If you can't communicate properly then that is nothing to boast about, it has no place at work.

Do try to get over your puffed up notion of self-importance because it must be excruciating for colleagues who have to watch such a tiresome performance on an infinite loop.

Your colleague sounds REALLY annoying, and I don't blame you for getting irritated in the slightest.

However, the tone of your message suggests it's more than that - that you're threatened by her success and her assumption of authority. I wonder if that goes back to some issues you have with your own work - academia being a career which notoriously is terrible for one's self-esteem! When I read your message, it feels like you maybe hate yourself as much as you hate her. Believe me, that's not a criticism - if I'm right then I know exactly how you feel, and it can be very difficult to deal with those feelings.

The way out of this is to feel better about what you're doing - so that you don't feel threatened by her behaviour quite as frequently but can just laugh it off as her being annoying! Trust me, if you find her behaviour annoying, others will too.

A personal story that I hope will hearten you: a few years back, I had a line manager who was incredibly insecure. She'd been made a chair at a young age, on the back of work that was largely written by other people but passed off as her own (I know this because my DH was one of those people!). She bullied me mercilessly, making my life a complete misery. I complained to others quietly, but they just didn't see her behaviour at the time because most of it happened in private. I put up with it for a bit, and ended up leaving as gracefully as I could for a better position elsewhere. After I left, the lack of achievement on her part, and generally backstabby behaviour was more and more recognised by other members of staff over a period of two to three years. She is now the most hated person in the department, and has no friends and everyone realises that she wasn't really the author of the papers attributed to her. I have gone from feeling like she was the devil incarnate to actually feeling real pity for the place she's in. What I've taken from it is that it's always better to be a good colleague, a good friend, to give credit where it's due and to make sure you don't kick the ladder away as you ascend it but instead help others up. Those who do this in academia are not just liked, but loved.

Oh, and to those jealous of her academic status - you sound absolutely pathetic. I don't think she's mentioning it as something to be proud of, but more to flag the fact that this is a career that is often full of very dysfunctional people who can sometimes behave very bizarrely!! (I'm not an academic myself any more, btw).

Sorry but it sounds more like you have a problem with her not the other way round. To me your OP makes you sound jealous and resentful of her position.

This is going to sound harsh - I don't mean to be, but I think it's important to look at both sides...

She's the same grade as me, is really successful - brings in money, publishes etc etc, but she seems to have a problem with me - is she more successful than you and wonders why you are on the same pay grade if she has more value to the uni? Could she be right? Are you coasting?

I had a colleague who's also a friend come in today to ask me for some advice about something I used to work on - but whatever I said, she interrupted with what she though the answer should be - I think it is irrelevant that the other collegue is a friend. She was presumably asking something on a professional basis? OK, your colleague was wrong, you say, but I winced a bit thinking of "she's MY friend so butt out" kind of situation.

I'm rude if I make a sarky comment - I'm projecting here but there is nothing more annoying to me than someone who is constantly sarky - especially if it's not funny. You know the kids of thing "is this seat taken?" "oh yes, my friend the invisble man is sitting there" - it's just annoying. Hand on heart, do you do this?

We're the same grade and have similar roles academically, but she is the course director of a course that I'm teaching on this semester, so she's always checking up on me, giving me things to do for the course and then telling me to changes parts of my lectures - I might be wrong but isn't that part of her role as course director or course team leader?

I know that I can be arrogant and gobby and have no diplomacy or tact - erm, enough said!

a throwaway comment once about how I never needed to work for exams (I didn't know then that she had to work very hard and revise constantly to get where she is) - maybe she hasn't taken it personally. Maybe she thinks you're belittling study and academia?

Sorry to go through your post like that - it may be that she is an utter horror, but there were enough things in your OP to make me think "hold on a minute, this doesn't sound entirely one-sided".

I don't think the information about being an academic was a stealth boast - simply the OP was trying to give some context to the situation.

In situations like these (as with outofcontrol's story) - if you give the perpetrator enough rope, sooner or later they will hang themselves.

That's a very insightful post, Spindarella.

Oh I didn't think OP was boasting about being an academic but about being gobby and not having tact or diplomacy.

Some people like academia, it wasn't something I wanted to pursue. I'm not dismissing OP's choice of career but the way she writes about it and her role in it, if speaking to her colleague(s) in the same way, could be a definite reason why working relationships with this colleague are poor. Spinderella's post explains it very well.

Not sure why people are being bitchy to OP because she stated she was being an academic. She was just trying to describe her working situation.

I sympathise with you OP as I've had to work in the same office as a colleague who constantly interjected with her opinion if I was discussing something with another work colleague or if anyone asked me for advice on anything. In her case she was doing it because she was desperate to give the impression that she was much more knowledgeable than she was and/or in charge. I avoided too much interaction with her and eventually was able to move to a desk some distance from her which made things much more bearable. I think it is important in this kind of situation not to moan about her at work though as you'll only come across as bitchy. As someone else has said, give her enough rope and people will eventually see for themselves what she is like.

Lying, why on earth do you think she's being self-important by saying she's an academic? That's her job, she's told us to provide context. TBH, you sound like you have a chip on your shoulder about it!

OP, it does sound a bit six-of-one, half-a-dozen of the other to me. If she's the course conveyer, she's entirely within her rights to question you about your teaching on her course. I'd also be asking myself why a new member of the department was convening a course that you're just TAing on, since you presumably have been there longer and are more familiar? I used to work in academia so I know the best person doesn't always get the job, but I wonder how she's managed this. Could she be feeling that she has to stamp her authority on the course, and hats why she's bossing you about?

I was wondering whether the part where the OP said:- "I had a colleague who's also a friend come in today to ask me for some advice about something I used to work on - but whatever I said, she interrupted with what she though the answer should be" meant that as far as the colleague was concerned, the OP was giving the other colleague/friend the wrong information, hence her butting in with the correct information. If so, I don't blame her.

HE is a very odd place.

I've spent 13 years working in HE (non academic) and currently one colleague isn't talking to me because I took exception to a very rudely worded e-mail sent to me this morning. Someone else isn't talking to me because I didn't hear what she was saying, asked her to repeat it, and she ranted that no-one cares! (I simply hadn't heard her: the environment we were in at the time was noisy, she wasn't actually looking at me when she was talking so I didn't even know she was talking to me!).

I'm a nice person, and I know I'm good at my job, but I just don't fit in where I currently work. I'm not gobby, am about as tactful as they come, but I'm trying to make significant changes to some of the thing we do in this department - appropriate for the grade and with full support and ratification of senior managers including the HoD - but oh no no, that's just wrong.

No words of wisdom really, but like I said, HE is ODD.

It doesn't so as if she's trying to out do you at all OP. It sounds as if she has a higher professional profile than you and you don't like it. You sound very catty and PA in your post. I'm guessing she's younger than you too? Stop the pity party and raise your own profile, academia is a tread wheel not a mountain. You can never stand still. I have worked with people like you before, arrogant and sarky who think it all should be handed to them because they had the knack as undergrads. Grow up.

whatever5 - thank you. She's actually not a higher grade, more successful than me etc etc we are an equal grade and equally successful. In fact, if we're going to get picky I've published 10 more papers than her. We are also both course directors, but she doesn't teach on mine (because she doesn't have the experience). For those of you who think that it is all my fault and then today I heard many more complaints about her from other people in the department who have known her for far longer and far better than me. I have also heard that, in fact she is jealous of me. Fuck knows why and I don't actually care enough to care. There is also nothing wrong with my self esteem - I just don't like PA and annoying behaviour.

She is also 2 years older than me - so no, I'm not envious of her youth lol.

Anyway, whoever said give her rope and let her hang herself - well that is what I'm going to do.

Oh and btw my friend/colleague who tried to ask my advice yesterday actually went and complained to the HoD about her - not because of what happened in my office, but because later, during a coffee break this woman went up to her and told her how her entire project was going to fail because she had not followed the incorrect, misleading and downright stupid advice that this woman had given her some time ago. That particular matter will now be taken further.

As far as I'm concerned I'm just pleased to be out of the office doing consultancy work for the rest of the month.