to think that the sad facts of Ivan Cameron's life and death do not exempt Cameron from criticism for his government's policies. [Titled edited by MNHQ to correct spelling of Ivan Cameron's name]

[nippiesweetie]

Again, today during Question Time he uses his son's disability and untimely death to close down discussion on a matter of disability.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/15/welfare-reform-minister-disabled-not-worth-minimum-wage

I find it very hard to believe that Freud's answer was 'rooted in compassion'.

Freud's answer was not rooted in compassion. Milliband showed it for what it was. That is his job.

the idea that disabled people should be paid less that others is disgusting.
everyone should be paid the minimum wage or more.
the idea that a disabled person is worth less is horrid and something that needs to be stamped out.

MindReader Have you read the full context?

Here is an article which argues the case more eloquently than I can

www.ibtimes.co.uk/why-lord-freud-was-right-question-minimum-wage-disabled-people-1470202

From the “compassionate” Lord Freud. ‘Benefits as a lifestyle choice.’ Families who can’t pay the bedroom tax ‘Can go to work and get a sofa bed.’ ’There is no link between benefit cuts and the increased use of food banks.’ Likened benefit claimants to corpses.

Its all context, isn't it?

Yes, longfingernails I have, thank you

I just disagree with you

"the idea that disabled people should be paid less than other is disgusting"

Exactly. What else needs to be said and who could argue with this?

Thanks, nippiesweetie for elaborating on some of the context for other readers on the thread.

Replace the word disabled in the sentence with black, or gay, or women. It sounds really, really bad then doesn't it? No-one could get away with saying any of those aren't worth the minimum wage, so why on earth should anyone say that some disabled people are?

Let me tell you this. I am physically disabled. I don't really know where I fit in in society. I hate not being productive, I hate having to rely on my husband and kids. I hate that when my eldest son was away for 14 weeks He was constantly worrying about me. Sometimes I think they would all be better off without me. Now today, to hear that some disabled people, people like me, aren't even worth the minimum wage has made me feel horrible about myself.

there seems to be a few posters on here who think that way.

shoesy In the labour market we are all worth different amounts - in other areas we are all equal.
The minimum wage actually excludes some people from the job market and is not a good thing.

Vomit all over your post Carol.

discriminating because of disability is never right, how ever you dress it up.

In the labour market we are all worth different amounts

Hence the need for a minimum wage.

The reason I sleep at night is because I pay a living wage. If every company did this AND made their corporation tax, than perhaps there would be more money in the coffers to support people with disabilities younger. To provide financial back up for extra time off needed and equipment required to provide safe work environments? So no one loses out?

But that I get told is idealism, because who the Hell wants a living wage pay out a living wage?

The thing is, either you agree with the minimum wage or you don't...you can't have a minimum wage with exceptions or it's discriminatory.

On balance (despite the very large number of flaws with the concept) I think a minimum wage is a slight net positive; I don't see the issue with exceptions in the slightest.

If a business can't afford the minimum wage on a severely disabled person who may not be producing the minimum wage's worth of value, but still wants to employ them to help give them a sense of purpose, they should be encouraged, and indeed, supported (financially and otherwise) by the government to do so.

Personally I feel that if an employer is asking in their job advert for more than the most basic qualifications they should be paying more than the NMW.

I see so many jobs asking for NVQ L3 quals and only paying the NMW. Ridiculous. It usually takes 2 years to get that level, its worth more.

But thats neither here nor there. The minimum wage is the minimum. No exceptions.

Certainly the suggestion that people with disabilities "are not worth the minimum wage" is blatantly unlawful under the Equality Act 2010.

The fact that Cameron has experience of living with disability in his family through his father and his son is not the issue. It is the way he used that experience to avoid answering legitimate questions about the gaffe-prone David Freud's deplorable comments.

I am dismayed to read RowanMumsnet's comments about not criticising public figures because it may damage future MN campaigns.

That implies that successful campaigns require matey, privileged relationships with those in power, rather than good research, good arguments, public support and the effective use of our democratic process.

I realise that MN is not a democratic organisation. However, curtailing free speech on the basis that it might offend your important political chums seems rather inappropriate.

Longfingernails Freud used the term "disabled" not "severely disabled". So IMO that throws your argument out of the window. There are many people who are classed as disabled that can carry out jobs just as well as an able bodied person can and often to a better standard as they have to prove their worth...... So you honestly think that they deserve £2.00 per hour and their employer receive funding for employing them.

I watched David Cameron when he shouted that he didn't need lecturing, it was IMO said in a very aggressive manner to shut the other side up.

longfingernails

You are talking utter tripe. Patronising, ill informed, graceless tripe.

Well said Olgaga!

diaimchlo

Cameron has a filthy temper - especially at PMQs.
There have been many occasions when he has lost it.

diaimchlo I can't speak for Lord Freud (and evidently he can't speak for himself particularly well...) But in my personal opinion exceptions should only be granted for the severely disabled.

If the offer of work is essentially driven by the charitable instinct of the employer, rather than the needs of their company, then I see no reason why the government shouldn't pay. The social benefit is well worth it.