to wonder how important male role models are to a child's wellbeing

[MrsJamesPurefoy]

my wife and I want to start trying for a family. Since we are a same sex partnership we obviously don't have a man in the immediate family and coincidentally neither of our fathers are alive.

We don't have any close male friends who we see regularly and we don't have any male relatives such as brothers or uncles either. I suppose I am wondering if this is likely to be detrimental to our child's wellbeing and happiness.

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\outl0\strokewidth0 \strokec2 No one will be able to say how it will affect your child, obviously. Everyone is different.



But I was brought up by a single mother (with severe mental yealth issues). She was supported by my GPs, but GF was a chauvinistic, horror with a severe attitude problem.



No other male relatives/close friends.





I'm blissfully happy. Not all the time, everyday... But in the main, there is very little I would choose to change about my life. \cell \lastrow\row}

Er... Ok then!

Obviously that wasn't what I typed... But don't know if you can make out what I wrote in the middle!!

I think I do ... !

There are very long-running studies (I mean, decades) carried out in, IIRC, the US, on this topic. They found that there is absolutely no discernable difference between the children of lesbians and the children of straight couples, but there is a big difference when income is different (ie., poor parents struggle across the board).

They stopped the study because it simply provided absolutely nothing to analyse in terms of differences.

I can't see how any child could grow up in our society with no access to role models of the opposite gender, but those don't have to be parents.

I realise this, but certainly we don't know anybody who the child would 'grow up with' who is male. Friends are all female.

Of course they will hopefully encounter some male teachers at some point but they could be fast approaching adolescence by this point!

I saw your OP. I don't see how it matters?

We live in a society where children have role models of both genders. To avoid it, you'd surely have to ban all TV, all books, to send them to single-sex schools with single-sex teachers ... it'd be impossible.

I would think that being in a loving, caring, stable home would be more important than having a male role model. Families come in all shapes and sizes these days, many people are brought up with single mothers. I think as long as you give your children an open, mixed approach and allow them to socialise with all sorts of people they will grow up no worse off.

Good luck OP!

I think every year attitudes to women improve vastly. I think the 'male' role model certainly has a place but a strong role model of any gender is far more important in teaching children morals, values and decency.

I think a strong partnership regardless of which genders are involved is far more imporant

good luck to you and your wife

and what I meant by attitudes to women is that when this male role model phrase was coined It was the idea that the man would teach the value of work etc I.e. all the stereotypical values of being 'the more confident and work instilling role model' iyswim

What a load of utter, offensive shit, dil. I don't believe you for one minute.

I know what you mean primary. Thanks :)

Dil, interestingly I have found the opposite. Research has shown children born to same sex couples have better outcomes than those born to heterosexual couples.

Also, the most damaging impact on a child's life is an unrelated male in the house.

I have no idea where your research has come from!

I am a single parent to a son. My father has died, and I have no other male relatives and I'm not too concerned about it. He will likely have male teachers, and depending on which sports he chooses to participate in, may have male contact through that. I think that bringing him up in a stable, financially secure environment where I can show him the value of education and a good work ethic is going to be more important than learning 'how to be a man'.

If you're really bothered then send them to scouts or sports clubs with male teachers - martial arts, football... look for a male childminder or nursery with male staff...

I know no children who grew up with lesbian parents (my lesbian friends are either childless or were with men when they had children), but I know quite a few who grew up with single mothers and no father contact and I know some are a bit wary around men so I probably would in your position make sure they interact with men in the ways I mentioned above from a young-ish age.

OP, I worried about this, also being in a same sex relationship and now with a child (a daughter, who, if a previous poster is to be believed, seems to be looking forward to a future under CAMHS). Incredibly offensive stuff based on anecdote and conjecture with no evidential basis whatsoever - and also quite disturbing if you out look at what is actually being implied.

The research I have read suggests that there is no difference in outcome between gay/lesbian or straight parents although there is sometimes a slightly higher outcome for emotional intelligence with gay parents - possibly, the study conjectured, as a result of gay parents being forced to talk explicitly about discrimination etc early on. I would question how many children of gay and lesbian parents and indeed straight parents you have come into contact with in order to be able to draw your conclusions dil.

In the end, I consulted a child psychiatrist whose words resonated greatly with me, and hopefully they will for you too. She said that it is not the gender of the parent that matters, but the quality of the parenting that is fundamental to a child. She also said that if I believed I was somehow giving my child 'less' by not having access to an immediate male role model, that it would become a self-fulfilling prophecy that the child would pick up on. I haven't looked back.

I have personal experience but of limited time- DDs are 3 and 6 months and have 2 mums. They have one grandad (my dad) but only see him 5-6 times a year as we live in a different country. DD1 adores him, their relationship is very special and unique. It quite upsets my mum actually as he is God-like to DD and grandma doesn't cut it!

I would have been far more reserved about having DCs in your position (without my dad) as I do think being around men is important. But it's dead easy to rectify once you've got kids. Gymnastics club coaches, my work friends, the dads of other kids; no shortage of guys about to interact with your kids if you make the effort?

I have found that when boys join various clubs, like cubs, football, chess or whatever there are usually people who they will look up to. Normally when they hit the teens, their dad is the last person they look to!

Agree with suggestion of scouts. I am a single parent and my dad died when ds was 1. He does have a relationship with his father but it can be rocky. He has been through beavers, cubs and is now in scouts. The leaders are amazing and have even supported me on behaviour issues with him. I know he looks up to them a lot and also the older boys from explorers who help out.

Wouldnt worry about it.
Men could have walked out/died leaving the mother with only her mother as men die younger.

I guess there is the possibility there then of a new relationship with a male role model. But im sure people dont form a new couple just for that purpose.
I think a father leaving or coming in and out of their life would be worse for a child.
I had my DF but did go to an all girl school till uni and it might take longer to relate to men when not around them much but it happens in the end

I read it as 'male models' obviously models not that important - but role models- well there are lots and lots of ways to provide them in a Child's life. I thinks awareness is key - and you obviously have that.

My DCs school has a good amount of male teachers (fairly unusual) and most kids get a male teacher for a couple of years. We've had male key workers in nursery too.

Sports, family friends, your own extended family, godparents or equivalent should all help

Don't forget when you have kids you make a whole new social circle. If you don't have close male friends now you may well find this changes.

I don't see this as a big deal. As others have pointed out, there'll be lots of men in your DCs life.

And when you break it down, what does the concept of a male role model even mean? It's perfectly possible for a woman to exemplify traditional 'male' virtues. And conversely, your designated male role model could be more 'female' in their characteristics & values.

Does the presence/absence of a penis really make much difference?

I have a similar situation. Not in a same sex relationship but I'm a single parent and my father is also dead.

I worried an awful lot about male models. I don't think it was necessary to.

All my children are girls which made me feel happier (perhaps unreasonable but I feel that boys would need a male role model more?!)

I also have a lot of strong male friendships. My daughters godfathers (and godmothers!) are all wonderful and go out of their way to spend time with them. I think they help.

But if you don't have that kind of network I don't think it's essential. Your love and care will be more than sufficient, regardless of your gender.

Based only on my own personal experience I feel that a good male role model is very, very important.

I grew up with a poor male role model and it has affected me in many ways. My ds does not see his father and although it hasn't affected him so far in terms of his behaviour, he does crave a father very much.

I know it's not very pc of me and I'm sure that a loving stable home is the most important thing. But seeing poor ds just wanting a dad like everyone else he sees is heartbreaking. And makes me believe that the absolute best is 2 parents a mum and a dad.

It's not about doing 'dad' things or football or anything like that. It's just a gap that's there. And I've noticed that ds is like a moth to a flame to any male relative or friend who gets pally with him.

Having said all that, I believe that having one or two parents of any sex who are good role models, loving and caring is better than having a father who's abusive or a waste of space, so I'm not saying it's better just because he's a man.

Just that as any child grows and realises that their family dynamics are 'different' there will be things that you will have to face.