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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to be slightly depressed by the Ched Evans debate?

104 replies

BinarySolo · 14/10/2014 12:59

I feel so angry and upset by the debates going on at the moment. Not so much whether he should be able to play football again, but it seems to be still being debated as to whether or not he's guilty and whether his victim was at fault for being drunk and going back to his hotel room.

Really. Who would ever report a rape? It needs so much evidence just to get to court let alone get a conviction, and then when your attacker is convicted you still have your character questioned and people speculating about whether it was really rape.

Not to mention idiots like Judy Finnigan stating that his crime wasn't that bad because it wasn't violent and the victim 'wasn't physically harmed'.

FFS. No wonder we need ad campaigns explaining what rape is.

OP posts:
KingJoffreysBloodshotEye · 14/10/2014 18:59

I reckon Judy's doing a Thingy Hopkins (forget her name, I call her 'potato face' in my head).

Saying deliberately stupid/unpleasant stuff to get her name in the papers and get us talking about her.

She can't be that fucking stupid. Can she? She always seemed quite with it.

It must be a publicity stunt. Wasn't it her first time on LW, too?

Andrewofgg · 14/10/2014 19:34

She can't be that fucking stupid. Can she?

Yes. Easily.

CrotchMaven · 14/10/2014 20:07

The reason we have such a low conviction rate for reported rapes is because of women like Judy (amongst other reasons, but I think this is one of the biggies).

The CPS bring cases that have a reasonable chance of conviction. But because there are so many people who believe there are grey areas in rape cases, they know that juries are unlikely to convict in certain cases. I am delighted that they brought this one.

It is the "reasonable belief" bit as far as consent is concerned that is the hurdle. As long as a significant part of the population believe that men can't help themselves, are entitled to access to womens' bodies and that women are in a perpetual state of consent, then the conviction rate will not change.

CrotchMaven · 14/10/2014 20:16

I wonder if it's partly that a lot of women may be having really shit sex and so the margin between that and rape is quite narrow.

And, of course, male jurors don't want to think of themselves as rapists and female ones don't want to categorise their experiences as rape and so won't convict on cases that are uncomfortably close to their own experiences.

That said, the case where the defendant was acquitted when claiming that a woman he met in a random street in the middle of the night consented to rough sex still haunts me somewhat. Not a fraction of what is does her, though, I'll bet.

CrotchMaven · 14/10/2014 20:20

Sorry, "a tiny fraction" - I changed my sentence and didn't edit properly.

Fishstix · 14/10/2014 20:28

Agree that this is awful, and Judy finnegans comments moronic and wrong...is there not somewhere we could complain en mass about her comments?? Sure you could get some significant traffic with a complaint in here and it doesnt hurt to make tv producers ait up and realise they cant allow their oresenters to perpetuate this type of thinking...

KingJoffreysBloodshotEye · 14/10/2014 20:36

Don't need to complain.

She's killed her career in one sentence.

No one will take her seriously again.

Rebecca2014 · 14/10/2014 20:36

The rape convection is so low and considering how many women get raped it is shocking. But the high amount of women who get raped, there are loads of men out there who have raped women.

I feel more should be done at school to teach boys how to treat women right, I do not get why everything is aimed what the women can do to prevent rape when it is the male gender which commit these crimes.

GinAndSonic · 14/10/2014 20:43

Rape is penetrating a person, with your penis, without consent. I dont fucking CARE that Ched Fucking Dickhead didnt threaten her with a knife, or beat her up or anything else. He had sex with a woman too drunk to consent. He raped her. He was found guilty, in court, by a jury of his peers. He is a convicted rapist. Judy whatsherface and the rest of the rape apologists bending over backwards to defend his right to swan back into his life of privilege need to give themselves a shake and see what they are doing.
In this country you are innocent until proven guilty, not innocent until proven guilty, unless the woman was drinking, in which case you are also innocent despite being found guilty.

notquiteruralbliss · 14/10/2014 22:06

Really don't think the victim blaming is appropriate. The issue isn't about the victim. Of course she should not have Been raped. More that he was convicted of a crime, served prison sentence for it and should now be able to resume his career.

Original poster
BinarySolo · 15/10/2014 14:42

I think it might be worth a complaint to itv. Although Judy was a guest on the show, non of the regular presenters challenged her either. It worries me that when celebs come out with this sort of bollocks it just becomes excepted as the norm. These views need to be challenged.

Women are not at fault for drinking or what they wear. Going back to a hotel room does not equal consent. And just because the victim wasn't knocked about a bit, doesn't make a rape non violent.

OP posts:
fourwoodenchairs · 15/10/2014 14:46

It's really upsetting me too at the moment. It's dragging it all up for me, and when Judy F and Sarah V make the comments they have it makes me want to cry. I did have a good cry yesterday evening once the kids were in bed and felt a bit better.

I reported my rape but it was a waste of time.

Original poster
BinarySolo · 15/10/2014 15:11

So sorry to hear this has brought back unpleasant memories for you woodenchairs. I think the comments are very disrespectful to all rape victims. They seem to be the norm amongst the fluffy daytime tv presenters. Philip Schofield has expressed some very questionable views on rape in the past too.

OP posts:
chockbic · 15/10/2014 15:14

It isn't going to get any better with convictions when people in the media come out with these rape apologies.

VoyagerII · 15/10/2014 15:21

Slightly depressed? Bloody furious. I've tried to give Judy Finnigan the time of day in the past. Never again. What she said is so appallingly ignorant and irresponsible and she doesn't even seem to get why!

The specific case, in which there is been a rape conviction, should be out of the equation really because whatever Finnigan thinks about it, the court's judgement is there and I hope the victim can take some comfort from that.

But aside from that, to say that it wasn't violent and she wasn't physically harmed! It beggars belief. If she was raped or her child was raped, would she minimise it as not being "violent" or physically harmful!? FFS.

fourwoodenchairs · 15/10/2014 15:55

Don't worry Binary, I'm usually fine but stuff like this just questions how much I have got over it I suppose.

I wonder if this had happened to their children they would hold this view? I presume not. In fact, kids or not isn't an excuse, how can anyone hold that view? Honestly I think it's a shameful view to hold am I am willing to be flamed for that.

My rape wasn't particularly violet as in he hit me or drew blood but he did hold me down mostly face down and I had some tears around my vaginal opening. So was that let of a rape than that Indian woman raped with an iron bar? More than a passed out girl raped? Of course not. It's all fucking bad. Bad bad bad.

VoyagerII · 15/10/2014 15:58

I think focusing on the degree of actual force, if that's the right word, or actual measurable injury, is a distraction because the act of rape is in itself a violent violation of another person's body, and it in itself a deeply traumatic harm. Whatever the circumstances or details.

fourwoodenchairs · 15/10/2014 16:02

Yes exactly. Surely just penetrating someone else's body is violent in itself?!

Original poster
BinarySolo · 15/10/2014 16:27

Yes it is. I was trying to get at that but I'm not very eloquent.

And it's made me angry too, I think I used the term slightly depressed because I was expecting to be told to get a grip.

OP posts:
windchime · 15/10/2014 16:28

If you have a date with a man in a hotel, doesn't somehow change the dynamics of the date? Isn't it assumed you will end up in a bedroom together Confused

diddl · 15/10/2014 17:36

It's quite a thing isn't it that he was happy to have sex with her after his friend had, but her morals are brought into question?

Original poster
BinarySolo · 15/10/2014 17:49

Him going to the hotel after his mate texting 'I've got a girl' doesn't exactly confirm the existence of any morals either.

OP posts:
WookieCookiee · 15/10/2014 17:59

windchime but if you go back with one man to does it mean you agree to having sex with all his friends as well, even though you haven't met them yet & don't know they are coming along? As that appears to be the case here.

OP: yes the whole thing is very depressing especially when you read comments under sensible articles, like Grace Dent's in the Independent. One man asks which is worse, a rape or a 2.5 year jail sentence.. Words fail me really.

LeBearPolar · 15/10/2014 18:05

Just came on to link to the Grace Dent article here

MrsKCastle · 15/10/2014 18:14

Windchime, sharing a bed with someone is NOT the same as consenting to sex.

Having a date in a hotel may well change the dynamics. There may be something of an anticipation of sex. Many people would draw that conclusion. But if at any point either person decides that they don't fancy sex, they have the absolute right to make that decision and have it respected.

And if your date passes out, you acknowledge that the evening has not gone the way you hoped, you make sure your date is ok and you let them sleep it off. Because that's what any halfway decent human being would do.