To think shouting for help when your being 'assaulted' is entirely acceptable?

[youarewinning]

My DS is 10 yo and in year 6 of junior school. He has social and emotional difficulties and is currently under Camhs waiting for assessment for ASD.

He is often taunted at school and finds it hard to deal with the usual banter due to his literal understanding. He attends a social group 2 afternoons a week and is learning some skills through this.

However there is one particular student who is making DS life hell and I believe it is actually bullying. He targets DS and hurts him. Due to DS difficulties he finds it hard to explain what has happened in incidents, especially when he's still emotional, and hard to explain his feelings.

After many talks with school about this boy I have told DS that when he is hurting him or touching DS work to shout at him to 'get off' or 'go away' to attract attention and so others witness the incidents and it limits his need for explanation.

DS has been great at doing this the past week (previously he wouldn't stand up for himself p, even against verbal bullying for fear of him himself being reprimanded). I told DS no one would find it unacceptable to call for help when he's being physically hurt.

Turns out I'm wrong 3 times this past week DS has shouted and each time he himself has been reprimanded because 'we don't shout in school'. Even once being told to control his anger. An incident occurred Friday where this student pushed DS off his chair at the computer and start inputting a load of letters when DS was trying to log in. DS got into trouble for shouting, then fell behind with logging in. He also asked if he could leave the room as he was angry and was told 'no'. DS left the room anyway! ( I don't condone disobedience but it's been a long time to get to the point where DS can recognise his own emotions and try and deal with them).

So AIBU to think shouting is acceptable when your being assaulted.
And WIBU to tell DS to ask the teachers what they would do if they themselves were being assaulted?

You discuss this with the teacher before as a way forward, not instruct your son to shout out and cause him to lose sight of class room rules. If all children in primary school shouted out because someone pissed them off, the place would be bedlam.

Why isn't the teacher paying attention and actually managing the behaviour in the classes?

Talk to the teachers.

He's not shouting because he's pissing him off he's shouting at him to go away when he's got him against a wall in a corridor kicking him.
The teacher this year is not great with DS and I don't get a good vibe from her. If the school were dealing with it DS wouldn't need to defend himself iyswim?

Complain to the HT. Teacher sounds like a knob

You are right that it is ok to call for help but you need to discuss it with school. Unfair on ds to give him instructions which may get him into trouble when you aren't there to explain.
What the hell are his teachers doing about the bullying?

This is bullying - clear and simple. It has nothing to do with any particular difficulties or possible diagnosis your DS might have.

Therefore, you need to obtain a copy of the schools anti-bullying and safeguarding policy. Go through it and document every single incident that has happened with this other boy, then make an appointment with the HT.

State clearly what you want to happen - i.e. action to be taken to safe guard your DS from physical assault and injury, also verbal taunting and abuse, intimidation and interference preventing him for learning/completing his work.
Ask for a written plan as to how they are going to achieve this.
If no improvement escalate to the governers and the education authority.

Thanks 3littlefrogs. That's exactly what steps I need to take. I have a meeting with senco tomorrow to discuss these issues and I'll be taking your post as a reminder to myself what I'm asking for!
School do have a plan in action already which is to support DS to stand up for himself and let children know when their actions are hurting him - even when verbally.

I just can't get out of my head tho that if I was standing in the aisle if ASDA ( for example) and someone staring kicking me then my immediate reaction would be to call for help and likely fight back. As I have no intention of encouraging DS to use physical force shouting seems the only way to stop the assaults in their tracks.

Yanbu at all, your poor ds. The last thing you want to do is give instructions which could get him into trouble. I would see the teacher and SENCO give them a list of incidents and ask to see the schools anti bullying policy and how tgey are using it to help ds.

You discuss this with the teacher before as a way forward, not instruct your son to shout out and cause him to lose sight of class room rules. If all children in primary school shouted out because someone pissed them off, the place would be bedlam

This is a child who is being subjected to physical violence not one whose just been pissed off.

Shouting for help is a very basic normal first reaction when you are being assulted, any adult in a position of authority who needs to be told this is lacking in skills and needs some training.

op YANBU but clearly the staff in the school need to have this brought to their attention

This is ibviously not implemented as he is being told off for alerting adults when he is being attacked, and that is not on.

I agree socks, this is a chikd who is being verbally and physically bullied and his cries for help are being ignored and he us being punished for nothing. Not on imo.

The school are aware of the problems between this child and DS. There was also issues with another boy last year who use to threaten DS and this year they have been out in different classes. However this child has remained with DS and there's been no suitable resolution as yet - hence another meeting tomorrow.
It's also worse when their own CT is not there and so I ink a plan on paper is be shared with ALL staff is a great idea.

I presume you must have gone through the plan with the school before setting this plan of action up with your son.

Why then are they objecting to his use of the agreed action on your DSs part?

Get back to the school and ask why the are not supporting your DS as they should.

I'll be honest there is no plan that says DS can shout for help if needed but I didn't think anyone who was being assaulted needed permission to shout iyswim?

The plan involves DS being able to see ELSA when there have been incidents to help him work through his feelings, social skills group to help him communicate his needs more clearly he has a diary to record any incidents to help him remember clearly and calm him quicker and let him talk about it when he's able.

The shout for help came about because last week escalated and the senco is only in Mon - Weds. Wednesday evening DS was inconsolable and so I emailed the senco to ask to meet. She obviously picked up her email at home as has replied with an appointment to meet tomorrow. One incident where DS shouted was on Thursday and the other 2 on Friday.

The school are fully aware of the problems DS has with this child, who is also disrupted in class in general, but I feel they have not dealt with it because it's still happening and now appearing to escalate. I feel as well DS social difficulties have been used as a tool to play down the incidents and I'm realising now that it's just pure bullying that is not being dealt with.

I think shouting out for help is a perfectly good response to getting a kicking!
It's a lot better than escalating the situation with more violence. Do they expect your DS to just stand there and take it?

What are the school doing to stop your DS being bullied? I'd be having a meeting involving - at least - the SENCo and the CT, if not the HT as well, and putting something in place. How does this boy have access to your DS with no-one seeing? Can the school make sure that the two boys are closely supervised at all times? Make sure everything is in writing and make sure they don't wriggle out of it or make excuses as to why whatever is agreed hasn't been done.

The school should be aware that if your DS does have ASD he is at a very high risk of bullying and they should have a low threshold for action as he doesn't have the social and emotional skills to cope.

Hopefully with a little help it will pass quickly and your DS will enjoy the rest of Y6.

My DD2 (11) has AS. She has been struggling recently with a child who has been pushing her around, taking her belongings to wind her up and breaking some of them, etc.

She is generally very quiet and compliant in school so found it hard to raise these difficulties with the staff herself, preferring to tell me so I could tell them.

Last week I tried a different tack and told her to do the same as you told your DS. She apparently screamed "Give it back!" at him when he took a soft toy from her and she has yelled on other occasions. She is pleased as punch because it is working and the staff have intervened on her behalf every time.

I don't understand why the staff in your DS's school have decided not to understand.

When you speak to them about this, can you use the phrase that they are repeatedly failing in their duty of care towards your ds, particularly by enabling the bully to continue bullying your ds in a variety of ways and then making it even worse by punishing your ds when he tries to alert a member of staff that he is being attacked (just out of interest was the bully punished for attacking your ds those times?!?). Then make sure you follow up the meeting with an email so there is a paper trail where again you have this phrase written down; from what I've read on mn it seems to be the one that should kick their arses into gear.

If the bully is also 10 and the school aren't protecting your son then I would be very tempted to tell the school that you will be taking the matter further and speak to your local police on 101 for advice. It may be that they have a local community policeman who has a responsibility for schools and who would give the boy a ticking off at school. A shock to him like that might make him realise that he needs to grow up and not be a bully.

I would also, when dealing with school, make sure that you call this behaviour what it is - severe, repeated, targeted, physical and mental bullying and victimisation of your son. If you say you believe it is bullying then you open the door for them to take the easy way out to deal with it by saying you might believe that but we don't so case dismissed. If you say he is being bullied (include the severely etc) then you are presenting it as fact and they then have to deal with the facts which makes it much more difficult for them to dismiss them or you out of hand, they have to face the facts and deal with them.

I know it's only the difference of a few words but it can make a big difference when you have teachers that don't seem to be that bothered and are looking for easy ways to deal with this rather than the correct way to deal with this!

Good luck...

Fro

I think you're describing two separate incidents here?

I think it's perfectly reasonable for your DS to shout if someone has him cornered in a corridor and is kicking him.

I think it's less reasonable when he's in a classroom and there's a teacher in charge (as there was in the situation where he had to ask to leave the room).

In both situations, he needs to be completely clear as to what he is allowed/supposed to do.

"WIBU to tell DS to ask the teachers what they would do if they themselves were being assaulted?"

Yes. They're adults. Adults don't have a Big Person Who Is There To Sort Out Problems. Your DS does. It would be insane for the expected behaviour of an adult to be the same as the expected behaviour of a small boy in school.

I agree zip zap, op needs to rake a tough stance to this. And go higher if the matter is nit being resolved.

Yes it is reasonable to raise your voice if you are being physically attacked as the op ds us being.

I am a teacher and I have encouraged children in very specific situations (like the one you describe) to shout 'no' and 'stop it' when another child is harassing them. It empowers the child and gets my attention quickly, so I can support the child and ensure their safety and that the 'bullies' behaviour doesn't escalate. I think it's really important for children to learn to be assertive if another child is hurting/ harassing them. I would much rather have occasional minor disruption to deal with, than have a vulnerable child think they just have to put up with abusive behaviour. It also benefits the 'bully' as they soon realise they can't get way with their behaviour. This is all of course assuming that your son's version of events is an accurate reflection of what is happening.

Why is he being "supported to stand up for himself"? This is blaming the victim.

he needs to be completely clear as to what he is allowed/supposed to do

I couldn't agree more.

When he is shouting for help their first response should be to deal swiftly with the action of the bully.

Their next step should be to talk through the incident with the OP's DS, reinforcing that he was right to call attention to this incident and reminding him that he has the right not to be assaulted by other pupils.

If the staff feel that there is another, equally effective method that he could use to attract their attention to the incidents of bullying. They need to consider his communication difficulties while and ensure that he is capable of using this preferred method. Then they need to inform all the other teaching staff so that they know how to respond and the OP so that she can reinforce the message at home.

The only thing that is insane is the idea that a child is being bullied and the adults responsible for his care are trying to prevent him from communicating that it is happening.

Well said Goldmandra. OP your son should not have to put up with this treatment and he certainly shouldn't be punished for asking for help.