To think shouting for help when your being 'assaulted' is entirely acceptable?

[youarewinning]

My DS is 10 yo and in year 6 of junior school. He has social and emotional difficulties and is currently under Camhs waiting for assessment for ASD.

He is often taunted at school and finds it hard to deal with the usual banter due to his literal understanding. He attends a social group 2 afternoons a week and is learning some skills through this.

However there is one particular student who is making DS life hell and I believe it is actually bullying. He targets DS and hurts him. Due to DS difficulties he finds it hard to explain what has happened in incidents, especially when he's still emotional, and hard to explain his feelings.

After many talks with school about this boy I have told DS that when he is hurting him or touching DS work to shout at him to 'get off' or 'go away' to attract attention and so others witness the incidents and it limits his need for explanation.

DS has been great at doing this the past week (previously he wouldn't stand up for himself p, even against verbal bullying for fear of him himself being reprimanded). I told DS no one would find it unacceptable to call for help when he's being physically hurt.

Turns out I'm wrong 3 times this past week DS has shouted and each time he himself has been reprimanded because 'we don't shout in school'. Even once being told to control his anger. An incident occurred Friday where this student pushed DS off his chair at the computer and start inputting a load of letters when DS was trying to log in. DS got into trouble for shouting, then fell behind with logging in. He also asked if he could leave the room as he was angry and was told 'no'. DS left the room anyway! ( I don't condone disobedience but it's been a long time to get to the point where DS can recognise his own emotions and try and deal with them).

So AIBU to think shouting is acceptable when your being assaulted.
And WIBU to tell DS to ask the teachers what they would do if they themselves were being assaulted?

10 years old is the age of criminal responsibility. If the boy attacking your son is that age or older, it's assault. Report it to the police since the school obviously can't cope or don't care.

While I agree it is best to discuss this kind of thing beforehand, my sympathies are with you OP.

If your DS could think up a more appropriate response on the spur of the moment, or even choose from a range of responses, he wouldn't have social communication difficulties.

Clearly the practical thing to do is to discuss this with the school. However, if they have a better more effective method of dealing with this kind of problem, it is also their duty to communicate it to you. From your OP, it doesn't sound as though they have come up with anything yet.

My children go to a martial arts class and they have been taught through this to shout "BACK OFF" before using any of their techniques (which are taught as self defense not attack). I think making yourself clear through a raised voice is perfectly fine and should hopefully raise enough awareness that something is amiss so an adult can take control of the situation.

Is it possible that these incidents are happening when the teacher isn't there. I am wondering if it is support staff such as ta.s or middays haven't been kept informed of your sons situation and are behaving in a way that is not appropriate for him. As a Midday I have got things wrong. But nevertheless, yanbu. I hope you can resolve things.

Thanks for all the replies. gold sorry your DD is also suffering bullying. It's AS they are sure my DS will get dx with.

I will use the phrase repeated, severe etc.

Your also right about most of these incidents being when main Ct is not there. So I will be questioning why TAs, stand in staff etc have not got his IEP and behaviour plan and read it prior to teaching him.and if they have why they aren't following it.

My original hope with him shouting get off etc was it would stop the bully because he realised DS wasn't going to stand there and take it anymore.

My question about the adult is because whilst I understand reactions of adults and children are different I cannot see that if I was being kicked etc I wouldn't call for help. (Or even fight back but I don't want DS to do that)
I really think it will open the staffs eyes up to the fact DS reaction is normal - it's just that he's responses have to be taught and learnt because they aren't innate iyswim?

But skylark, how is the responsible adult going to know that a child is being attacked unless the child shouts for help?

If they just say rather than shout stop it/help/no etc then chances are the teacher will just hear it as background chat rather than realise it is a cry for help. The bully certainly shouldn't be allowed to carry on bullying because the victims get told off for telling them to stop. The victims wouldn't need to say anything if they were left alone so all the blame for any distubance is firmly on the shoulders of the bully.

DD had been having a problem with bullying from one particular girl who was bloody sneaky with it and her teacher asked her to shout 'x is hurting me' rather than go away, because go away or get off could just be arguing and particularly on the playground isn't always noticed, where as telling the teacher loudly whats happening is very clearly a call for help

Dilligafmyukip - you didn't read the op, or you read the op and don't care, or you read the op and don't understand. Those are the three best options for what I think YOU think.

Sorry op- I'd be quite annoyed with the teacher. If someone pushed me off a chair at any age, they would be lucky if all I did was shout at them.

Would a shout of "Stop hurting me!" be something that even a teacher/CLA that didn't know him find harder to misinterpret/ignore? Telling your ds to shout out if someone's hurting him seems eminently appropriate, but if you hadn't spoken to them in advance, and your ds finds it hard to explain, then they might possibly think he's, for instance, yelling out "stop" because he's struggled with the usual banter, rather than realising that some little git has pushed him off the chair?

The problem with "X is hurting me" is that a child with a literal interpretation will then only use it if the bully is causing them pain. They can't use it if the other child is damaging their property, scribbling on their work, holding them down, calling them names, etc. Some children with AS would need to be given a specific phrase for every type of incident.

if you only give them one phrase a smart bully will soon cotton on and do something that it doesn't cover.

OP, make sure you get across that children being and feeling safe in the classroom its hound be s higher priority than an undisrupted lesson.

The problem with "X is hurting me" is that a child with a literal interpretation will then only use it if the bully is causing them pain.

Ah, I didn't think of that, sorry. DD doesn't have AS and knows that she can change it to x is drawing on my books/calling me names/being horrible etc.

It may be a difference in terminology.

I wouldn't describe raising your voice and saying "stop doing that" as shouting. To me, shouting is something you do as loudly as you can when there's no other way of getting attention. You'd never need to do it to get the attention of someone in the same room. (Barring there being a complete riot going on in there).

I think this needs discussion with the teacher/other staff. Take a list of what your son has had to deal with and ask what he is supposed to do when these things happen in a classroom situation. It might be as simple as that he should physically go to the teacher instead of shouting out - or maybe even that raising his voice is fine but not screaming as loud as he can. The staff need to understand that your son needs a clear "if x happens, then I should do y" set of instructions that he can apply.

Ah, I didn't think of that, sorry. DD doesn't have AS and knows that she can change it to x is drawing on my books/calling me names/being horrible etc.

No need to apologise

This is a brilliant example of why schools need to work closely with parents and properly qualified experts to plan these interventions. It isn't obvious to most people so a teacher could very easily make this mistake, thereby giving a child a strategy to use that plays beautifully into the bully's hands.

My son is 8 and has Asperger's. He had quite a few issues at school a year or so back, around the time we got his diagnosis, and I found once we had the 'label' the school were much hotter on dealing with it. His were mainly taking place at playtime, and there was an agreed protocol involving a clear signal for him to give (previously he had just been making a rather inarticulate noise), and a designated learning assistant as his person to go to.

Even before diagnosis, the school were very aware of one particular boy who was picking on him in class as well as out, and they did act on it. It took about a week of me sitting in the head's office every morning (in tears some days) to get decent action - but once they acknowledged it, they were brilliant. And they seemed very aware on separating certain children, and keeping an eye at certain times when pushing etc was more likely to happen.

I saw in one of your posts that he already has a plan, so presumably the school are admitting that extra support may be needed. Hopefully a diagnosis will put that on a more formal basis.

Hi all, thankyou got all the helpful advice and continued support.

I rang school this morning and spoke to DHT. I stated I had serious concerns that despite school being aware of issue this child had been able to escalate his behaviour towards DS and now be bullying him on a daily basis. Before she could say anything against it being bullying I continued with "and it is bullying as it's targeted, severe repeated and intended to cause DS distress and that's how you define bullying on your policy".

I asked questions:
Why was DS told off for shouting for help when being assaulted.
Why was DS refused to leave a room after an assault when he'd asked when he has a behaviour plan which states this is what he can have as well as access to the ELSA.
Why when DS reports incidents are teachers asking other children what happened, the bullies friends, and then disbelieving my DS word on this basis.
Why is another pupil in year 6 telling wrap around care staff that the school are not preventing or doing anything to stop this child bullying my son.
And if DS was refused to leave the room it's clear the staff taking the class had not been given his behaviour plan and IEP to read and why hadn't they as it was there for a reason.

She started to defend the school (typical) but I politely reiterated that they may feel they are dealing with it but it has not ceased. That if the bulky cannot walk round school unattended then he should be escorted an adult.

The DHT then tried toms anything DS foes to 'lunch club' to help keep him away and stop him being subjected to picking on by X and other children. To which I posted out lunch club is because DS cannot manage an hours lunch break and he was having meltdowns and biting other children (this was 18 months ago) and that lunch club was not to keep him from bullies. The victim should not be hidden away to stop bullies.

Anyway after talk with DHT this morning and SENCO and CT this evening I feel we have an effective plan in place that should work.

I have told the school that my intention is to involve the police if they cannot prevent my child from being assaulted.

DS felt happy with the way the incident that happened today was dealt with so that's a start.

Oh and teacher actually apologised that staff covering her (TAs in school) had not been informed of his needs and plan. (It sounds strange but just someone admitting a mistake can be calming because excuses can make you more angry).

DS has also been told he cannot use his hiding space in school anymore now they've worked out where it is! I have told school they need to help him find another 'safe space' he can use, that he asks to use if he needs time out.

Positive news is that DS is working extremely hard in school and teacher is very pleased with how hard he's trying at his writing. (He has learning difficulties in literacy).

Glad to hear that you got your point across so firmly and they finally seem to be doing something - and even more so that your ds felt happy with the way they dealt with today's incident. Hopefully it means that proper change is afoot and they will deal severely with the bully sort everything out properly, both in the long term and the short term.

Well done. It sounds like you handled this really calmly but assertively.

You now need to send an email to all of the people you spoke to today, summarising your concern, using the words significant and sustained bullying, detailing the actions they have agreed to and what you will be doing if anything, and asking them to email you by return if there are any misunderstandings or inaccuracies.

As long as they don't back-track or correct anything, this then becomes an agreed record of the day's events and how you have agreed the matter will be handled in the future. If they don't live up to their undertakings you can quote the email to remind them.