To be furious that my line manager hasn't yet given my new employers a reference?

[JellyDiamonds]

A fortnight ago I was interviewed for and then offered a new job. I accepted and then handed my notice in with my current employers the following day, I'm now in my notice period with two weeks left. I had to give the names and addresses of three referees, one of whom HAD to be my current employers. Fair enough!

On Thursday late afternoon the person who I will be reporting to in my new job phoned me to tell me that whilst my two other references had responded they still haven't received a reference from my line manager, this is despite them contacting her twice. She then asked me if I could chase it up but when I tried to contact my line manager on Friday she was apparently out of the office for the day!

I cant say I am especially surprised as my line manager is the most incompetent person I have ever met in my entire life, and is the main reason I am leaving. I should have known this would happen, but I am so fucking angry! I was really looking forward to starting my new job, a fresh start and new challenge but obviously I won't be able to start without this reference from her!

She has been in the office as I've seen and spoken to her, so there is no excuse for this. It's just laziness and a lack of consideration for anyone other than herself. In three years I've never had a day off sick and have gone way beyond the call of duty but the unless bint can't even do the decent thing and provide me with a reference.

I'm going to chase it up on Monday but I don't know how to deal with it? I'm worried that I will blow my top and all of the resentment I have will come tumbling out.

Surely withholding a reference is against employment law?

I would be very careful about accusations of 'withholding a reference'...if she's that incompetent it's more likely she forgot.

Just approach her on Monday and tell her your new employer has still not received the reference and it's now urgent. 'So if you could do that now for me i'll pop back in an hour ok?' type of attitude.

I can appreciate it might be frustrating, but really, is it incompetence? If you only had the interview a fortnight ago, and accepted the job the following day, then she's only had the request for about a week and a half, maximum? She's probably busy! Not to mention the fact that she's got to replace you...

I think it might be best to just chill a bit. Your new employer can contact your HR department to find out what they need to know; anything else is discretionary anyway

Afraid not, as frustrating as it is, there is no obligation on a previous employer to provide a reference. I think all you can do is keep asking her

If you've got an HR department pass it over to them - good luck

Hi Op. Did you work for a large organisation? In our business a line manager has to refer all references to HR. They can not provide a reference without it going via HR. In fact all references are pretty generic unless there is something bad occured in which case we simply refuse to provide a reference.

It may not be your line mangers fault that the reference is delayed.

Thanks. I will chase it up on Monday and see what happens, I suppose she may have just forgot and it wouldn't totally out of character for that to happen. But I am so worried that the whole thing will go wrong, I need this new job.

Yes LittlePeaPod I do.

Get in touch with HR. your managers hands may be tied by HR. It can also take us about 2/3 sometimes 4 weeks once a request is received to send it, if I am honest.

Thanks I will do that. I think the reason I'm so worked up was because this job was starting to make me ill and then the new one came along and it all seemed a bit too good to be true,

I wouldn't worry about how this may impact your new employers. I am sure they will understand how these things work. Speak to your previous employers HR, see if they can issue it or get your manager to issue it. Also find out what their process is for sending references and timescales and then let your new employers know.

Congratulationd and good luck in your new role Op.

YABU.

In most large companies all reference requests have to go through HR.

Our HR dept can take 6-8 weeks to action a reference request as it isn't deemed a priority. And the reference they do provide states no more than the date you were employed from, job title and number of sick days! They expressly will not provide 'personal' references!

What she said ^^

I couldn't give a reference for any of my team, even if I desperately wanted to. It would be a disciplinary matter.

Go to HR and ask them to do it as a matter of urgency, please.

Well if I was your line manager your leaver form would be filled in on your last working day only then would a reference be generated for you, that would then go to head office where your new company could access it via HR only. I have never been asked (and wouldn't give) a reference until the staff member had left. Otherwise the usual questions 'how many days sick' 'notice period worked?' Etc wouldnt be valid, good luck with the job

Mm.

Some years back, a former employer refused flat-out to provide a continuity reference required by my new employer on security grounds. So they got this:

NOTICE OF INTENDED LEGAL ACTION.

Dear XYZ Ltd, you have refused to provide me with a reference to enable ABC plc to carry out the necessary security enquiries. Without this reference, I will suffer loss of income. I give you notice that I intend to claim loss of earnings of £ xxx , begininng on the 1st of next month, as I have a firm offer subject only to your reference.

I sent that via fax, and they couriered it over in 2 hours.

Worth a try.

Why would you hand your notice in until you have an unconditional offer of employment? It's ludicrous anything could go wrong

YABU

That's a very short time frame. It might be your top priority, but your company would very much expect your manager to be prioritising:
1)Their usual workload, 2)Trying to figure out how to cover for your absence, and 3)Then how to replace you...if senior management found her prioritising your reference over the above, one suspects she would be in deep trouble.

There is no legal obligation to give a reference, so up the tread with the threatening letter about loss of earnings without a reference is the usual MN bollox advice from someone with no actual comprehension of employment law

www.gov.uk/work-reference

An employer doesn’t usually have to give a work reference - but if they do, it must be fair and accurate. Workers may be able to challenge a reference they think is unfair or misleading.

It is generally v unusual to ask your manager for a ref while you're still employed! If they don't want you to leave it's in their interest to give you a bad reference!!
Is there another management level person you could ask?

I would second it being stuck in HR if you're in an organisation large enough. Most references these days are very bland just confirming the dates you worked in the organisation.

I work for a LA.

I moved to another post within the LA, was interviewed and offered the job, references were sought which took about 3wks in total then I handed my notice in - it was about 8wks from interview before I started the job I interviewed for. that's pretty common here.

I'd ask her again Monday

Dilligaf

As my industry (haulage) IS regulated, I have to continuity references OR proof of unemployment/sickness. But thank you anyway.

Disgrace, I think the continuity record you refer to might be different from a general reference of employment.

A general reference is not a legal obligation, an employer can refuse to give one without explanation. They cannot give a bad reference. Most references are simple, start date, position held, days sick, proposed end date. That's it.

'They cannot give a bad reference.'

That is not true, either. A reference has to be true. Good or bad. So most employers these days stick to simple facts, as you stated, without any opinions, that can be proven if challenged on it.

If someone had a sick record of 30 days off for coughs and colds in a year, they can say that. The person involved (and the new employer) might consider that a 'bad reference'. So what, it's true.

I'm in the same position as you OP so I can sympathise. I didn't realise that chasing up references took so long! Is there any progress today?

kentish, as you say, that is not a 'bad reference' it is a factual one. That the employee thinks it shows them in a bad light is not the point. A bad reference would be one that included opinions and judgements that showed the employee in a bad light.

The good/bad reference thing is why most companies only allow them through HR and they are, effectively a tick box affair! Otherwise it becomes a bit of a nightmare!