Is this school being unreasonable? Or is this common practice??

[benetint]

We recently relocated to an area with supposedly one of the best state schools in the country (results wise and ofsted wise). The general local opinion seems to be 'wow, you are so lucky to have moved to our village, our school is AMAZING' however when you talk to people privately you get a somewhat dismal view. For example:

• my hairdresser (with dyslexia) was recommended to go to another school (she thinks so the overall league tables weren't affected)
• a neighbour's child (with mild special needs) was told not to apply as they would not be able to support him
• another neighbour's child has just started A levels there and got a D in their first test - they were told 'either drop the subject or pay for an hour's private tuition a week, orherwise there are lots of other people waiting for your place' They are heavily oversubscribed
• most worrying, a child from our church with moderate special needs was apparently put into a room for half an hour with some 'posh, academic type kids' who had been bullying him, unsupervised. They provoked him until he snapped and hit one of them and he was excluded permanently, again saving their precious league tables.

Are any of these things actual real facts or just embroidered tittle tattle?

so I guess I'm worried we've made a stupid choice moving to this expensive, sought after and frankly unfriendly area for a school which seems to prop up it's league tables by hand picking kids that would get an A* regardless of teaching.

Or perhaps this is all embroidered tittle tattle and we should just go for what the majority say?

What are your other options?

Oh OP it sounds bloody awful .

Is there no way to stop these fuckers and bring it up with Board of Education or some such? God help any poor kid who doesn't live up to their standards.

We've moved from a 'rough' area with shit results but a 'nurturing atmosphere' to this... Is there a happy medium?

Stop listening to bizarre sounding rumours and visit the school. Ask them about sen provision. People do talk some outrageous guff about schools. You need to see for yourself.

Thanks Larry, it does doesn't it :( It's so difficult though because it's all hearsay and not my individual experience

I think if I were you I'd like to find out for myself from as close to the source of the truth as possible. People do natter and stories get built on as they get retold and then someone will get confused and tell a story about a different school to someone else who wasn't listening properly and so it gets distorted. Find out for yourself and meanwhile listen politely, smile, nod and move away slowly from the crazy people!

Thanks trice, will do.

Thanks woowoo. There are a few other state schools luckily - I think we'd be considered mad to apply for anywhere else though!

I wish I could just tell you which school it was - I might be sued for liable though?'

Haha Ora, good advice :)

Unfortunately a number of outstanding schools are not very good at dealing with anything outside of "the norm" whether that's sen, mh issues or whatever. I don't know if it's always about being selective as such, ime it seems to be more that they are tailored to run a certain way and simply don't have systems in place to give the extra support.

This is why it is worth looking at the "value added" scores, again my experience only, some "failing" schools have very very high value added and do an excellent job of supporting children who need that little extra for whatever reason. They may not be top in league tables but definitely should be top in "enabling children to achieve their best" tables.

Our local "failing" school ("" because it was actually an ofsted good but was considered failing locally because people here are so deliciously middle class you could cry) has recently closed. Suddenly people are realising just what an excellent job they did and how hard they worked to do it.

A school isn't what it says in an ofsted report or what the straight a* parents tell you. The community it creates will give you good clues. The community it fails or excludes will speak volumes.

There may be some truth behind these rumours but they are almost certainly heavily embroidered. The truth may be considerably less shocking. For example, the hairdresser may have been advised to transfer to a school that is particularly good at helping children with dyslexia. They may already have an above average number of children with special needs in the relevant year group and believe they cannot cope with any more. They may have concluded (probably not on the basis of a single test) that your neighbour's child is unlikely to pass their A-levels, in which case putting them through the course would be a waste of everyone's time. It is, of course, possible that they failed to take adequate action to stop a child with special needs being bullied and then excluded him when he hit out, but it is highly unlikely that they put him in a room with the bullies unsupervised for half an hour to prompt such an incident.

It is equally possible that some or all of the rumours have no basis in fact at all. Some people seem to feel the need to make up negative rumours about successful schools.

OP, I'll share a story with you that will make you see how these things can get very twisted.

There was a boy in DS1's class at his old school who one day attacked the class teacher on the playground, using a stick, his hands and his feet on her. She was quite bruised after it and very upset.

The boy's Mum went into the school (when her son was excluded for three days) and kicked up a holy stink. She moved her son to another school and has since done nothing but slam the school and bitch about the teacher. She wouldn't believe her son had behaved like this. And - here's the kicker - people agreed with her.

Me, I saw the whole episode. It was right before home time and they were all heading back to class after time on the field. I raised the alarm with another teacher and had someone come to deal with the situation. The boy's Mum was not on the premises at the time and did not witness what happened at all.

And yet, as I say, she has since denied the whole thing, despite me and many others witnessing it ourselves.

According to her the school hated her son.

Now imagine if you met her, with no prior knowledge of the incident, and she told you how the school hated her son and accused him of violence towards his teacher who was a bitch.

It's easily done.

This is quite usual. I know someone who has their children in two different schools. One NT sibling in an outstanding amazing school and the other with ASC in a different school.

I did a placement at the amazing outstanding school, and I asked where sibling of NT child was as he was a friend of my DSs, teacher said "oh he goes to x school, we can't really deal with autism here"

While I think it's awful that schools push out kids who might make their results look bad, I do think this "every school has to be wonderful at dealing with every possible SEN" is a little odd. Schools are allowed to specialise in maths, or business - why shouldn't they also be allowed to specialise in support for autism, or dyslexia, or dyspraxia? Why do they have to be the best school for everyone?

I've also encountered the "x school is appalling for picking on my poor innocent child" comments from people who refused to believe their kids had done something that they absolutely did do. And "x school is appalling for throwing out my hardworking daughter based on one bad result" when said daughter didn't do a hand's tap over a period of months and had had multiple warnings, extra help, meetings to discuss why she wasn't coping with the requirements...

I can believe it, there is a school near me that is considered a brilliant middle class school.
People pay a fortune to live near it and seem to consider it a feeder school to the local grammar school (which it isn't).
It has an outstanding Ofsted report which was done 7 years ago so I don't know why another has not been done.
The reality is that the head is very unsupportive if you have any additional needs and would rather your child was not there, and the majority of children are having private tuition from reception year.

They have a 50% pass rate for 11 plus, but that is due to the amount of private tuition going on, it can't be that good if the parents pay a fortune to live near the school and then feel the need to pay for private tuition from day 1.

Sorry, I stand corrected, the Ofsted inspection was over 4 years ago

A school isn't what it says in an ofsted report or what the straight a parents tell you. The community it creates will give you good clues. The community it fails or excludes will speak volumes.*

This.

There's a school close to us which is always at the top of the league tables and parents are forever fighting to get their kids into that school...

I live near a few of the kids who attend that school and went to college last year with 3 of the kids who just left that school...they are all little shits. I've even had to call the police on these kids before because of their behaviour and threats. I attend the college next to that school so have to deal with them on a daily basis, their behaviour is disgusting, so much so, 4 teachers now have to supervise tham at the bus stops.

If the kids need supervising at the bus stop, what the hell are they like in class? The attitude towards the college lectuer coming from these "top school" kids left me gobsmacked.

If you want to judge a school you need to stand outside the gates at the end of the school day, watch how they act and talk to eachother and other people - this will give you a better idea of what the school is like than those pointless ofsted reports.

The state school I went to was 'such a good school'. Children of Middle class educated parents were 90% the catchment area. Everyone had private tuition pretty much. hardly anyone with additional needs.

The school was not a good school, it was just full of good kids.

I would be delighted if my child went to a school that permanently excluded other children for physical violence.

You CANNOT have children punching one another. No. They are young men and women at secondary level and the damage can be serious.

Hairdresser - no idea. Dyslexic children are ten a penny in secondary schools. Maybe if it was severe dyslexia (couldn't actually read) it was suggested to her parents to look into alternative provision.

Sen child - highly unlikely. More likely to be along the lines of 'we can't guarantee a TA in all classes'

As for the child doing her A levels, to be honest, I see that as a positive. Pic really struggled with one of my a levels and it cost me a place at the university I wanted to go to (mum wouldn't let me drop it.)

School sounds fine to me but then I'm a huge fan of middle class schools

My Dd recently stArted at a bilateral school in the "grammar stream" after messing up her 11+ (she didn't check through her answers and was 1 question off a pass for the local girls grammar). I originally discounted this school as it had just gone into special measures and I thought there would be a bullying problem (from none select students towards selective students). A family friend who had helped to prepare Dd for the 11+ changed my mind completely.

He explained that it was still a "grammar" place and would therefore teach in a similar way to the grammar. He pointed out that OFSTED has changed so much that schools have very little chance of getting excellent now as the goalposts have changed so much.

So, with trepidation, I put Dd down for the school I knew little about, with a relatively bad reputation. Ok, we aren't even at the first half term yet, but so far I have been extremely happy. Dd is doing well, communication is good, Dd has made friends and is joining clubs, eating well and settling in well. Yesterday, after a fight broke out at lunch time, it was swiftly dealt with and Dd felt confident that the teachers had resolved the issue.

In conclusion you cannot go by reputation alone. You need to speak to the school, see for yourself what is going on and ask the questions relevant to your own child. I fully expected to take dd out and home educate if I felt it wasn't working. It is, and she is happy.

Sen child - highly unlikely. More likely to be along the lines of 'we can't guarantee a TA in all classes'

I can say from personal knowledge that our local outstanding school responded to an autistic child's needs with 'You can put it in his Statement all you like but we still won't be doing it.' To me, that's pretty similar to 'don't apply as we won't be able to support you', so it sounds plausible that other Outstanding schools think this way.

You CANNOT have children punching one another. No. They are young men and women at secondary level and the damage can be serious.
So you approve of bullying to see if they snap, or just take it?