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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think I shouldn't have kids?

50 replies

SleepIsForNinnies · 09/10/2014 09:19

I'm autistic. Should people with a lifelong, incurable disability bring into the world kids who are also likely to have a lifelong lincurable disability and may need state support for their entire life? What do you think?

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 09/10/2014 09:23

It's an individual decision for everyone. If you don't think you could meet the challenge of having a child with a disability - and many can't - and if you think that's a likely outcome, then you're perfectly entitled to opt out and not take the risk. Others may feel differently. There's no right or wrong.

Original poster
SleepIsForNinnies · 09/10/2014 09:24

thanks, CES

OP posts:
LaurieFairyCake · 09/10/2014 09:24

I think very simply that interfering in people's reproductive choices makes us Nazi dictators and should be avoided at all costs as a society.

And on a separate note, as part of a society that cares for it's citizens I would be happy for you to have any help you needed to raise children.

seasavage · 09/10/2014 09:29

You have autism but are you entirely dependant on the state? I know this is a very varied condition.
Is autism completely genetic/ inevitable? (This I don't know)
Working previously in supported housing I was aware of a couple both with learning disabilities (one with also an ASD diagnosis) . Their son was entirely 'average' in his development. He did need some support (from family) with teenage school work / revision tips as his parents struggled with the work BUT they made sure he had the support and were loving and supportive of his endeavours.

PiperIsOrange · 09/10/2014 09:35

It really depends on the disability.

For example someone who live by me has got Down syndrome and also server learning difficulties. She is in her 40 still lives home with her mum and goes to a centre for disabled adults in order to give her mum a break, who is an aop herself.

Having a child who is asd, I don't know if he will be capable when he is older to have a child. If he did I would support him and his partner though.

Original poster
SleepIsForNinnies · 09/10/2014 09:45

I'm not sure how much help is available out there. The school system seems hard enough to get support for a child with any disability!

As a moral question though: do we not have a duty to society to avoid creating any extra burden for the state? In the same way we have a duty to support ourselves to the best of our ability and not rely on the state to do that for us?

OP posts:
DiaDuit · 09/10/2014 09:48

do we not have a duty to society to avoid creating any extra burden for the state

Very dangerous thinking there! Not a state i want to be part of.

Original poster
SleepIsForNinnies · 09/10/2014 09:51

I guess I'm asking on an individual level, about a personal choice, not for government policy! :)

OP posts:
DiaDuit · 09/10/2014 09:56

Should people with a lifelong, incurable disability bring into the world kids who are also likely to have a lifelong lincurable disability and may need state support for their entire life?

This didnt come across as if you were asking just for yourself but if you are then only you an those around you/support network can know if you should have children. I you want them then look into what support is there for you both officially and personally. Research the odds of your your autism being genetic (i have no clue if it is or not) and weigh up your options.

Mumto3dc · 09/10/2014 09:58

I don't think there is a right answer here. Agree with pp that it should be an individual choice based on what you want and feel you could cope with in the light of support you could realistically get.

No I don't think we have a duty not to "burden" the state, that seems a very negative view of what people who need extra care add to society.

I wouldn't want my children to grow up in a world that only has and values people who don't need extra help. Don't we all gain something from a society that cares for and includes all differences.

LittleBairn · 09/10/2014 10:01

Only you can make that decision. My DH is Autistic and I'm currently pregnant. The fact that he can't maintain a loving relationship with me fills me with confidence that he will be a good father.

LittleBairn · 09/10/2014 10:02

CAN not can't!

bottleofbeer · 09/10/2014 10:02

It depends on where you are on the spec really. My niece is very disabled with her autism. My brother who I am.99% sure is autistic is very high functioning. I suspect you are too as your post is articulate. Do you want kids?

LittleBairn · 09/10/2014 10:03

I should add my DH has had zero state support, he has a very successful career.

Mumto3dc · 09/10/2014 10:04

My dc are all (ATM) nt, and I think they benefit hugely from being at school with children with various extra needs. They are learning to value people for who they are and to be tolerant of differences in behaviour and ability.

Hope this doesn't sound patronising it's not meant that way, I want my dc to grow up accepting all people as they are. The same for other differences such as sexuality and race etc.

Down to the convo I had with ds2 this morning because he doesn't like his best friends school shoes!! We agreed the world would be boring if everyone wore the same shoes!

Coffeeinapapercup · 09/10/2014 10:04

I think it's a very personal choice, that will be influenced by your own experiences growing up.

A recent study in London has shown that if you have a child with Autism you had considerably higher risk of a second child also having ASD. They suggested at the point of diagnosis that the discussion should be had whether you had the resources including emotional to deal with a second child with autism. I have a child with special needs, I felt this was ok. My sister was horrified which I understood too.

Yanbu to ask the question of yourself. You would be unreasonable to suggest the state impose an answer

DiaDuit · 09/10/2014 10:04

My cousin has autism and wasnt expected to get through school. She did, very well, achieving passes at GCSE and works full time supporting herself and has stayed living with her mum leaving funds for others to enjoy independant living. She also spends every spare hour fundraising for not just autism charities but also cancer charities. Quite frankly at this point in time she has contributed far more and taken far less from the state than i have as a mother of two children. Her early years were not easy for her mum but she is a credit to her and we have only pride in the type of person she has grown to be.

Coffeeinapapercup · 09/10/2014 10:10

Totally agree with mumto3children about the value of learning tolerance to difficulties and differences at school.

BUT It is a little different. To me it's the same as testing for down syndrome and the difficult choices that sometimes people have to make. But at least if you know you are more prepared.

moxon · 09/10/2014 10:12

Are you asking because you want/don't want kids? Your question sounds like a survey?
I don't think we can answer. We don't know anything about you? Lots of people with and without disabilities want/do not want kids. Morally it is irrelevant until we know if you do or dont.
There's a massive spectrum of autism. The world would be bereft of artists, scientists, servers, teachers, miners, sportsmen, etc etc if you start argueing morals about autism and degrees. And besides, it isn't necessarily 'likely' it will be inherited. Reproduction isn't fickle.
Oh, and...:
Someone on here is bound to kick off. Have you got a hard hat on?

tabulahrasa · 09/10/2014 10:18

Well firstly any child you may have may or may not have autism and secondly it doesn't mean lifelong support from the state anyway.

My DS is 18 and at college and the sum total of state support he receives currently that he wouldn't if he didn't have autism is that he can use a laptop in assessments...

Nosy67 · 09/10/2014 10:23

I think that it's unfair that OP gets to ask this question and someone without disability would be tarred & feathered for even raising the idea.

As for the question, I don't think the state should dictate. And what is "state support", anyway? An awful lot of supposed normal people get more from govt support than they put in, where do you find a threshold of too much taking out & not enough putting in?

Personally, if I had a severe disability likely to be passed on I would probably choose to adopt or foster instead. For me there would be a moral element in that decision, but it's not something I expect others to live by. I know a (large) family with a genetic disability most the kids & grandkids have; my only criticism is the expectation that the non-disabled kids MUST put own lives on hold & instead do things to support the disabled family members. It doesn't sit easy with me.

There was a relevant case on the radio 4 programme (Ethics committee), about a woman with severe progressive disability of unknown cause & should she get IVF knowing there was a decent chance her offspring would have similar problems; I think the ethics committee decided she could have the IVF but mostly because she had a lot of family support to ensure good care for the child, the decision was all about interests of the child in medium term (first 10-15 yrs of life), not whether said child might need lots of future help themselves as an adult.

coldcream · 09/10/2014 10:28

I have autism and I have a child with autism - I was only diagnosed as an adult after DD was diagnosed. I think there is a strong hereditary risk (every parent I know with a child with autism also has a family member with autism, although it can't be predicted and lots of them also have a NT child as well). Both myself and DD require a high level of state support (both claiming DLA, I'm unable to work and DD may work but likely not f/t, at special school with high needs statement).

Personally I have chosen not to have more children, not because I think I shouldn't bring another disabled child into the world, but because raising one is hard enough and I've seen parents at breaking point when juggling two or more dc with autism. I've been at breaking point too - it's extremely stressful to raise a child with autism, but at least for me I'm not worrying about siblings as well. If I'm honest, if I knew I had autism before and that there was a high risk of having a child with autism, I don't know if I would have planned to have a child at all. It is very hard work and life is already hard work when you're autistic yourself.

naty1 · 09/10/2014 10:36

I think it would depend on if you think you can cope. Whether if the child has ASD you would feel guilty for them.
Because its not a usual inherited condition like some disabilities it would be harder to make a choice on this.
For me it would be an easier choice to decide to not have more children if there was something inheritable with the first.
I would do what i could to avoid increasing the chances, so i think its linked to increasing parental age.

Wonder if in the future it would be a reason to select on gender.
I dont think there is enough knowledge of the causes to use this as a reason not to have a child.

Original poster
SleepIsForNinnies · 09/10/2014 10:38

Yes, I agree with everyone that it has to be an individual choice, and that I wouldn't want to live in a society that legislates on this.

I don't actually have a formal diagnosis but my eldest has. I'm struggling to come to terms with the implications TBH - on one hand it explains why I've always struggled to earn my keep, but on the other I don't see why I should have to accept a life on benefits or being supported by someone else. Being articulate does not mean I have the people skills to cope in a work environment. I worry for kids too - being academically gifted does not guarantee them any level of success in life, and support is very hard to come by - this much I know for certain!

And thanks for asking, I wear my hard hat on a daily basis, dealing with a world full of NTs out there..... :D

OP posts:
moxon · 09/10/2014 10:39

nosy - I listened to that same programme episode. It was good.