to think I shouldn't have kids?

[SleepIsForNinnies]

I'm autistic. Should people with a lifelong, incurable disability bring into the world kids who are also likely to have a lifelong lincurable disability and may need state support for their entire life? What do you think?

My impression - as someone with an (undiagnosed)Aspergers father - no longer alive - and a mother who may have autistic traits - is that the issues are quite complicated. (I also have a partner who was a childcare lawyer, involved in assessing whether children were getting all the care they needed, and helping them to find the best possible place in which to grow up.)

To me your question sounds a bit theoretical. You're not saying that you currently have a partner, and that the question has come up within the context of a relationship. Perhaps if you're not somebody who feels comfortable in close relationships -guessing wildly here - you might nevertheless want to feel free to have a child some day?

I think autism can make it harder to assess what a child what needs, because it's harder to get an accurate sense of the other people round you - who may be wired very diiferently from yourself. This is particularly important when you've got a very small child, who can't say what they need! At that point you have to do the thinking and feeling on the child's behalf. You have to think - a great deal - about keeping them safe, giving them the cuddles that will make them feel secure, changing them etc.

If you are going to find it hard to do these things, is it easy for you to accept help from other people who will give you a hand? Or do you prefer to do things on your own, your way?

Incredibly complicated question, OP.

A few thoughts spring to mind.

1. This set of questions applies to us all, really, ASD or no ASD. What is the moral standing of having kids? We're all passing on inevitable suffering (everyone suffers), certain death, etc., as well as the potentially positive experiences. We none of us knows what the balance of these things will be for any individual. And each and every one of us will also "pass on" more specific features which add specific types of suffering to our children. It sounds like having ASD is perhaps making you think about the decision more thoroughly and intelligently than many people (including myself) do, but really it applies in some form to everyone.

2. Ithink it's really hard to reduce this to economics in any meaningful way. I know a good many people who have been heavily supported by the state (many because of genetic-related factors). I still think the world has been a richer place for their presence.

All the best with making your decision. At the end of the day, I think sometimes all you can do is go with your gut instincts, and try to accept whatever happens.

A friend of mine is adopted, as is her sister. Her mother saw her DSis die at 20 of a horrible genetic disease, and she herself had the faulty gene. Her husband was at distant risk of carrying it also.
She decided not to have biological children to avoid potentially condemning her DC with this disease.
It was heartbreaking but hugely courageous. And she is a wonderful mother.

I think she did the right thing. However, she was faced with a risk of a fatal disease, not autism. On this, I can just say I would not do it, but it depends on individual cases.

Thanks for all your responses. I'm amazed your responses were broadly speaking very positive and pro-choice. Yes, screening for Downs is a great parallel to draw here. I hear that in Denmark most women abort Downs babies - and as a result they now have exceptionally few services geared for people with Downs, who really struggle to find support!

I am finding it very difficult to come to terms with my autism, and I know my NT DH finds it increasingly difficult to cope with the "autistic world". My marriage is on the rocks, and I feel the world would be a better place without me & my autistic child.

Autism is such a vast spectrum though some people will need help for the rest of their lives and never be independent , and some will be able to maintain a relationship ,work and be independent .my four year old has ASD and learning difficulties right now I envisage him needing support for the rest of his life but I can't see into the future his ASD has been caused by a rare chromosome disorder so is genetic so if he was ever to have children their is a strong possibility they would also have difficulties .

Also my ds may or may not have inherited his chromosome disorder from either myself or dh if I was aware prior to having children about the disorder and how it may affect my children I don't know whether or not I would have had children.

I feel that most people's answers have been based around the following ideas.

a) Do people who are different have a valuable/valued place in society? (Most people are saying yes.)
b) Does human worth equate to economic independence? (Most people are saying no.)

My point is more about whether not being neurotypical affects 1) your ability to enjoy being a parent and 2) your ability to parent your child well enough.

I think the answer with 2) is probably that you have to work extra-hard to be a good parent. I don't know the answer to 1) but perhaps you do....

OP the world will NOT be a happier place without you and your autistic child. Can I tell you that there are some businesses out there that ACTIVELY seek people on the autistic spectrum because they value the different way the autistic mind works. I think GCHQ (government spy services) are one as are some IT companies.

You must be feeling really low at the moment and I really do know how you are feeling - the years of struggle when no school wanted my ds and no one wanted to know us either, it was crushing and I'll be honest it has affected me deeply, even though things are better now. Hopefully, ds will succeed and all those memories will fade. I'm sorry your marriage is on the rocks, it often happens when you have a child with a disability. Be good to yourself and your son.

"I feel the world would be a better place without me & my autistic child"

NO NO NO

Please get yourself some better rl support, somewhere where no one cares about your differences and you can have a laugh with more accepting people. get along to some local support groups.

My DS is on the spectrum (PDD-NOS). I think he would make fantastic father one day as he is very empathetic and loving.

DH comes from a family in which every single generation has been about 1 in 2 affected with schizophrenia. DH is not schizophrenic but he does have manic depression. We chose to have a child with a male donor because DH said he could not bear to see his child grow up and wait for the day (around 18 maybe) where everything went wrong. He grew up mired in the consequences of this disease.

Our choice was difficult to explain to family members, even though it was just personal to us.

My post may not reflect my belief, though OP, that the world needs and is enriched by all sorts of people, and a society that makes place for everyone, enriches us all.

It's a personal choice. My personal opinion is that no one should knowingly and choose to have a child if they are unable to take of that child and provide for it.

Just read through your posts. The world would never be better without you.

It is a very personal choice and not one that anyone who doesn't know you personally can advise you on really.

I have mental health problems including anorexia as do my aunt and grandmother and I would never have chosen to have children by design. Mine were the result of a combination of carelessness, naivety and assault and as I don't support abortion for myself I went ahead with it. My eldest daughter now has similar problems to me.

So, by personal experience - no it isn't a good idea for people with genetic difficulties to have children. But I'm sure there are a thousand other positive stories out there.

Also - it's difficult with ASD. For many it isn't seen as a disability at all but just a different (and even better) way of being. Which isn't something I understand because I haven't experienced it but might be another way of looking at things for you.

But how genetic is autism? Considering the very sudden rise over the last thirty odd years? I presume there must be a genetic susceptibility, but surely there must be some strong new environment factors at play that will hopefully be identified in the near future.

Genetics have been found to be a key factor in Autism.

www.autism.org.uk/working-with/health/screening-and-diagnosis/the-genetics-of-autism-spectrum-disorders.aspx

www.nhs.uk/news/2014/07July/Pages/Gene-mutation-linked-to-distinct-type-of-autism.aspx

As I say a "genetic susceptibility", but that does not explain the very sudden rise in autism, does it?

My autism is only a disability due to anxiety stemming from being forced into social situations (school) and having to communicate with people I can't communicate with (neurotypicals). If I could live and work among 'my people' in a sensory friendly environment, maybe off grid with an alternative lifestyle or in an aspie commune, with optional socialising

Three generations diagnosed in my family, I have no doubt it is genetic, There are millions of autistic people around who don't even realise it. It's not always the dramatic disability it is perceived to be

spot on the devil inside. Although I think you can add sensory anxiety to your list.

Mexican - yeah it does really, if rates have really increased. that and the fact we no longer believe in locking children/adults with adults up and throwing away the key. Thankfully

locking children/adults with autism not adults

There are suggestions that autoimmune issues may provide a trigger in gases where no genetic link is found. but I don't think that has been proved yet

Not autism, but being partially deaf, I did worry that my son would inherit it (he did not). Whilst I would happily defend everyone's free choice to have a family, I would also want that person to embrace that duty of care to their child in making sure they had the best possible shot at a happy life. So an autistic person, who knows there is a strong chance their child could inherit that condition, would be on the look-out for signs of it and push for help, where needed.

OTOH, I have a few friends with life limiting hereditary illnesses and they are adamant they don't want kids for that reason. It's one of the few times I would support gene therapy and "designer babies"