to think having New Year's Eve off is not a fair compensation for working Christmas Day

[Vintagejazz]

Once again my SIL will not be able to join us for Christmas day because she ends up working on this day every year. Her crime? She doesn't have children and so the managers in the organisation for which she works have deemed it fair that those with young children get Christmas Eve and Day off so they can be with their children, and those without get New Year's Eve and Day off so they can go out and celebrate.
My SIL is 45 and does not have any desire to spend NYE out clubbing and pubbing and getting home at 5am. However, she would like to be able to spend Christmas Day with her parents, nieces and nephews, significant other etc. as she has worked on this day for the past 3 years.

AIBU to think this is a rubbish arrangement and to have suggested she and others in a similar position approach management and outline the unfairness of the arrangement and ask that it be reviewed?

Plus, my last comment on this, is that it makes no difference whether you think its fair or not. The law has already decided that it isn't. So you're definitively wrong.

That's a crap system and people who can't have or (gasp!) don't want kids get shafted! It's total discrimination and I would be having a work with management about it sharpish.

I think it's fair to say if you work Christmas then you get first dibs on getting NY off, if you want it (We have a bit of an 'I'll work Christmas and you work Eid' thing), but to have the same people working Christmas every year is not fair. We have had an issue whereby people have been throwing themselves at the 'lesser' bank holidays and then saying 'but I worked May Day and Good Friday so I deserve Christmas off'.

It's certainly nice for children to spend Christmas with their parents, but non parents having to work Christmas every year isn't a reasonable way to accommodate that.

When I worked for an airline we all used to shift swap around the Christmas new year holiday and it always worked, once management got involved it caused a lot of bad feeling because some people were fostered both, some none, some Christmas and they'd rather have had new year. The shift swapping system never left them short!

Your sister should go and speak to them,

Grossly unfair.

Doesn't matter if you have DC or not where I work - it rotates so it's fair for everyone.

"Its not just unfair its clear cut discrimination. If they said that everyone with children had to work Christmas Day and anyone without didn't, that would be obvious discrimination. The reverse is also true.

This is illegal and your SIL needs to assert her legal right to be treated fairly in the workplace."

Oh good grief. Being childless is not a protected characteristic under the Equality Act. Please don't egg people on to demand legal rights they don't have.

I agree this policy doesn't seem particularly fair, but yelling discrimination and demanding rights is not the way to change it. It's the kind of policy that has come from someone trying to do the right thing.

Best bet is to get support from others and approach management in a constructive way and see if they could reconsider.

YANBU If you work in that type of industry then you accept you will end up working some christmases even if you are a parent, nobody should have to work every christmas. Your SIL should not be discriminated against just because she doesn't have children.

Thanks everyone. I think she is really prepared to take this up with management this year. It affects her, other childless employees and also those whose children are grown up. She's not insensitive to the needs of parents of young children and does more than her fair share of anti social hours, but she also has a life of her own and it really galls me (and her) that her managers seem to think it's less worthwhile than other employees.
She's not the only one totally fed up with it. But I agree with a pp, no point in moaning and not speaking up.

Totally wrong and I've been there. . .

She needs to go and say now that she will not be working these days, shes done her bit, and some of the others will have to take up the slack now. Some of those little kids will have grown a bit up by now and if you work in an area that needs to be staffed over the holidays you have to expect it and not use children as an excuse.

Long personal rant here feel free to ignore

Mine was the bloody NHS (yes I fully support it, but it wasn't supporting me at the time).

I worked nights every Christmas Eve/Day/Boxing Day for 10 years, because my family live abroad and you couldn't have annual leave over Christmas so I never saw any of my nieces and nephews open their presents etc. They all have lovely memories that don't include me.

Even after I got together with my OH it was still assumed that we'd want to be out on NYE, our idea of hell. But I carried on being a bloody 'team member' & 'taking one for the team'

Then my Dad was diagnosed as terminal given 4-5 months which included the Christmas period, and I was granted annual leave, well I told them I was taking it. I was not missing my Dads last Christmas.

The in the Nov we had a new starter who couldn't believe he'd have to work Christmas because of his 'kiddies' (his words). He was told he have to ask someone to swap, the rota was done and he'd been told he'd have to work it at interview.

He then spend the next 3 weeks trying to emotional blackmail me and the ward manager. She broke first and asked/told me I had to consider it. (Never mind that I was a senior and he a junior which would have left the shifts unbalanced and they would have to get another senior in to cover the shifts I swapped with him.)

I contacted HR and handed in my notice the next day, which because I swapped and canceled leave so much for others meant that my notice period was under 1 week, which left them totally up the shitter. I also implied that I would be going to the union to discuss bullying, and a hostile work place.

All the staff knew the reason I was given leave, and I was still made feel like the bad guy. Slightly changed when it came out the kiddies were about 10 & 12, and he was only doing a half shift (6 hrs).

And they wondered why after this (and shitty behavior when my Dad died) I left within 3 months. To a much better job where being a team member means you get to take occasional as well as give.

I'm still nearly 8 years on being used as a reason why they don't give A/L over Christmas, no mention of the previous 10 years.

Sometime you have to kick off, you let yourself get walked over too often it becomes the norm.

Wish her luck for me and tell her to kick ass!

Where I work (NHS) we get some choice in the matter, but depending on requests people don't always get what they want as a skill mix has to be covered.
The rules are, you either work Xmas or new year, but at the end of the day some do both, some do neither
Last year I worked Boxing Day and New Year's Day which suited me fine.

Yes it is massively unfair. I currently have no children and try to be considerate of my colleagues when booking leave - for example, I avoid booking leave over the school holidays but I would be very annoyed if this was to be expected of me because I have no children.

Unfortunately being childless is not a protected characteristic under the Equality Act so I am not sure what your SIL can do (i.e don't think she could claim discrimination) but she should bring it to her manager's attention that she has worked the last 3 christmas days and doesn't feel she is being treated fairly.

And I completely agree with Squoosh that the employer need to be thinking of their employees - who they have a duty to, the wants of their employees' children should not be prioritised. And I say that as someone whose parent worked 3 out of 4 Christmas days because they were in the emergency services (either finishing a night shift, going onto a night shift, or working a day shift) - we managed.

The employer of course needs to ensure that parents are not discriminated against but this should not be at the detriment of other employees who are entitled to expect to be treated fairly. No parent has the right to expect every Christmas day off and if they do, they need to think about a different job.

Although I don't think your SIL could claim discrimination I think she would have good grounds for a grievance and it may be worth her speaking to ACAS for advice.

YANBU

Having children doesn't give you a right to Xmas day off.
I've always been embarrassed when something like this has happened in my line of work (rare). How people spend their free time is totally up to them and not up to managers to decide upon.

I think it's a discussion that should happen among the staff. It might be that some parents are quite happy to have Xmas off.

Are you sure she's not volunteering so she can avoid the family chaos Christmas celebrations?

Hah, you've sussed her DeWee.

No, she really wants Christmas Day off this year. We're not that bad, honestly!

My sister always ends up working Christmas Eve till Christmas day sleepover because the women with children need to be with them on Christmas Morning its really not fair is it, dh works rota Xmas day which is fairer e

The employers shouldn't be thinking of the children, soontobesix; they should be thinking of their employees. Anything else is completely outside their remit.

The fairest way would be to take turns.

However if this is an on-going / unwritten "rule" you may find your SIL suddenly becomes very unpopular if she starts to kick up a fuss.

If I was suddenly told I couldn't have Christmas off when I had expected to I'd be pretty upset to be honest.

I am working this Christmas (we get the Bank Holidays off and shorter days on Xmas Eve / NYE) but I was on maternity leave for Xmas 2012 and 2013. I am going off an maternity leave again in January so will be off for Xmas 2015 as well. Thought it was only right to give my colleagues the chance to have a restful festive period as I will only work 1 out of 4 !!

(I have been with my co. for years and like my colleagues lol)

"Oh good grief. Being childless is not a protected characteristic under the Equality Act. Please don't egg people on to demand legal rights they don't have."
Actually. Family status is a protected characteristic, it works both ways. You don't seem to understand how discrimination works at all. She most certainly has a legal claim here.
You don't ask politely for them to reconsider if you are being walked all over. You get up off the floor and shout "no more!"

My Dad was in the fire service. A few years ago whilst looking through old family photo albums at Christmases gone by I said my parents how lucky it was that he'd always been able to switch his shifts when us kids were very little so that we had Christmas day together.

They looked at me like I was a complete idiot, and then confessed that they just held "Christmas" on a day that suited his shifts and lied to me and my brother about the date. They even shuffled the advent calendars to fit!

wellnow that's awful but unfortunately is doesn't surprise me,
This year Iv noticed that one employee (we can all see what each other has requested) has asked for Xmas eve,Xmas day,boxing day and New Year's Eve off! If she gets her wish I think some people may kick off.
Oh and we are not allowed to take annual leave over Xmas but every year there is somebody who has annual leave for one reason or another, usually because they have been there for over 15 years,
It's all really unfair and I've seen people in tears when they find out what their Xmas shifts are

I will work over Christmas and New year and I have 3 small children. Yes it's crap but sometimes you just have to suck it up. If it bothers her that much maybe she should change jobs.

Might be unthinking rather than unreasonable: Its possible that it's not policy but it's just never been an issue before. I work in hospitality and I offer a choice between Christmas eve and NYE. I face a direct split between people who have children (Christmas off) and those that don't (NYE). A 'fair' system would end up with exactly the same result. It's never been any other way but from a management point of view, someone would have to come up with something quite strong for me to go all Scrooge on someone with children for the sake of fairness.

Where I work ( as a Nurse), we have to work one of the key shifts of Christmas day, Boxing day or New Years eve ( nightshift) or New Years day. ifyou work Christmas day one year you get it off the next. I don't think it's at allfair your SIL having to work Xmas day every year, she needs to stand her ground. Even when I had 4 very young children I worked every other Christmas day.

youmedancing So you don't feel any obligation to be fair to childless employees?