to think if you breed and sell animals you relinquish all say when money changes hands? <petty!>

[SomethingVicardThisWayComes]

im a bit pissed off.

i am a massive animal lover and i have a house full of waifs and strays. last year i rescued 7 rats from the adoption centre at pets at home and needed a couple of boy rats to keep one of the rescues company.
i travelled miles and bought 2 from a breeder.
i care very much for all my animals and the rats have led a life of riley! they are spoilt rotten. they get the best food, i buy them fresh fruit and veg along with expensive dry mixes, they get lots of cuddles and they come out to play most days.

recently i rescued 3 kittens that had been found abandoned for dead in a rented house, they had been shut in a cupboard.
i took them in and am treating them for flu, ive wormed them, etc etc.
so i now have 5 cats and 2 dogs, i had 9 rats (now down to 6 )

my boy rats are massive and bigger than the rescue kittens. the other day i let them meet each other and took a few cute pictures, which i posted on FB. all my animals need to live in harmony.

the breeder of the rats commented on my fb pics and ranted at me saying i was wrong to mix predator and prey.....well no one told them they were predator and prey and they were fine together, just as my dogs are fine with my cats.

breeder ranted on my pics and said she didnt like it especially as she had bred 2 of the rats.
i sent a polite message apologising and saying they were never in any danger and i supervised them for the whole meeting which lasted less than a minute.

i got another snotagram back.

so now im a bit sick of biting my tongue and ive basically said if you breed animals for profit and sell them you get sod all say from then on in unless its an issue of cruelty. ive asked if she follows every single one of her sales to check they are being properly cared for....
my animals are spoilt rotten. id never mistreat or hurt them and they are pampered pets....
its pissed me right off that she has seen fit to comment and chide me over fb when she sells rats for a tenner a throw....
if you breed and sell animals for profit i think you lose the moral high ground in their upbringing from there on in.

its nice that she is bothered enough to comment but really.....if she is that bothered she should stop breeding and selling them. im betting that there are rats out there she bred that are far worse off than mine....

ive been quite restrained so far but would i be unreasonable to tell her to piss off and bother someone else....?
id have liked more rats but i get the feeling im now off her xmas card list....

I don't agree with relinquishing all responsibility, but if you want to have any say then you have a contract drawn up that says you will do x y z.

I can see the breeder's point if he/she knows nothing about you, which if they had taken an interest they would know. So YANBU.

You have dogs, they are also predators but they didn't refuse to sell you the rats.

BTW how are the three cupboard kits? I saw your post on TLT but was upset so didn't keep up.

I would alter my security settings so that only people on friends list can see and post on my facebook page

I am a member of the Fancy Rat Society, I'm afraid it's members do take a pretty dim view of those who alow predators and rats to mix, there is just no good reason to do it whatsoever, the breeder is probably concerned.

I am contractually bound to return my rats to the breeder in all kinds of circumstances, also both my pedigree and rescue dog, ask of the contracts have clauses saying I could be visited by either breeder or the rescue at any time and if they are unhappy with the way the animals are kept they have the right to seize them, so no, most good breeders do not relinquish control.

At ten pounds a rat, I would argue she isn't breeding for profit, rat keeping can be prohibitively expensive, breeding far more do, the vet bills alone can be astronomical. She also obviously cares hugely about her animals to be chasing you up in this way.

Hey lady, how are you?

I'd be very tempted to encourage a relationship between the kitties and ratties and post endearing pictures all over her fb wall.

Of course the sensible option would be to ignore and block!

gobblers - i friended her on fb. she has always been able to see how i take care of her 2 that i bought. i bought them to accompany a lone male that was found in a garden and i rescued and she knows this.

im actually quite offended.

she knew i had other pets when i bought them. my dogs, including a huge GSD lick them and wash them when they are out on my lap....
would she take a dim view of that too?

i did a good thing in taking in 7 rescue rats that no one wanted....it cost me in excess of £300 to buy cages, toys, etc etc....that surely is not the mark of someone who doesnt care for their pets. i only bought 2 off her to acconpany my rescue boy who needed to mix and socialise.
i love my rats very much and wouldnt put them in danger. the accusation that i would has really annoyed me.

sassh - cupboard kits are doing just fine. apart from the eldest one who is traumatised but she is very sweet - she just needs time and patience.

im having to keep my kittys away due to the flu. my dogs are mothering them all to death....including my big male GSD who seems to think he is solely responsible for bath time....
using his tongue.

he is a great bit dopey daft dog....

ah well I've. just had a.msg saying she will make sure I. never own any rats again. I re homed 7 from pets at home adoption centre and bought 2 from her to be companion's to the boy I re homed. how.pathetic? so she is going to ensure I never get any more from a breeder because I let them meet 2 tiny kittens for less than a minute. ...makes sense to me. Not. those rescues cost me in excess of 300 pounds. but I'm not worthy so I guess that's that! no more rats for me.

I think the whole "less than a minute" thing is a bit odd. Surely you either think it's okay for your rats and cats to be together or you don't?

I do think you need to do some proper research as to what's recommended. You can't assume that a particular combination of animals will "live in harmony" just because that's what you need/want them to do or you fancy taking cute photos. Especially if you agree with her that they shouldn't be left together, it's actually very irresponsible to post pictures which indicate that you think it's fine to do so.

Oh ffs the woman is off her trolley and clearly knows nothing whatsoever about animals. Introducing the cats to the rats is a sensible thing to do. Had you been introducing them to a giant boa constrictor she may have a point.

Just tell her to bore off and then move on with your life.
Why are you letting a complete stranger wind you up like this?

We had two giant rabbits two cats and a rottweiler all living happily together. The rabbits had the run of the garden and got on just fine with the dog. They did tend to harrass the cats a bit though.

I think she has gone too far posting stuff on your facebook page. Crossed the line

YABU, and naive to think that the cats and rats will be safe together just because you want them to be, and because "no one told them they are predator and prey" ffs

Just because you (clearly) care about your animals very much doesn't mean you always know what's best for them. I'm not surprised the breeder is continuing to take an interest in the animals she raised. I'd do the same. And I'd be bloody cross with you, too.

although I do blame my neighbour for showing my jack russell her hamster, over the fence, queue jack russell learning how to jump over her fence and stroll into her house, in fact she jumped over all the neighbour's fences in a row, but could not come back!

I would delete her from FB tbh

I would not be allowing direct contact between cats or dogs and pet rats or any other small animal. Even large males. It only takes a second of natural prey response to cause a devastating injury to a small animal, and the results are generally not pretty. Aside from any possibility of physical injury, prey species hide stress, you have no way of assessing their psychological response to being near a predator.

I would not expect a fancy rat breeder who takes this level of interest in the animals she has produced would be making any profit, and to take a continued interest and lifelong responsibility for the welfare of the animals you breed is a hallmark of a responsible breeder.

So YABU. Why do you think she is making these comments? Out of concern for the welfare of the animals.

She's off her rocker.

I had a pet rat and a cat a few years ago. Treat my rat in exactly the way you do, she had the run of the flat most days. It made for some incredibly amusing videos when she started chasing the cat around . Yes, the 'predator' was scared of the 'prey'. It was much like Tom and Jerry in reverse, utterly hilarious and NOBODY got hurt the cat was a bit scared though.

Likewise I know someone who keeps house rabbits that roam around the house in the same way her cats and Alsatian dogs do. All get along perfectly well.

There's a massive difference between domesticated pets and wild animals, massive. You were supervising, nothing would have happened. You aren't talking about a massive snake here FFS. Block and ignore. Also, don't buy from breeders again anyway.

I have a free range rabbit in the garden, and a jack russell, they sniff at each other and occasionally the JRT gives chase but she is always under supervision.

If you breed animals well, there is no profit involved. It is very expensive to keep them well.

I used to breed and show dwarf lop rabbits in a rare colour. I did NOT relinquish any responsibility when they were bought. They came with a contract and I was also in the phone or available in person for any problems they may have. They came with two weeks food so they could be safely weaned onto another, a pedigree and a booklet made by me all about rabbits, the breed and how best to care from them. I also took rabbits back if necessary, even if they hadn't been owned by me for years, to ensure they never went to rescues and would always have a safe loving home.

She probably should have approached the situation in a better way eg. Privately and in friendly manner but I can understand why she was upset. If she feels how I felt then she put a lot of time and effort into raising lovely animals, socialising them, caring for them, and if she sees something worrying it is bound to upset her.

Build a bridge. Breeders are a great person to go to for advice and surely you can see from her point of view the problem? With rats breeders have usually encountered people trying to buy babies to feed to snakes etc. they can be very underhand, hence the money changing hands to help prevent this, your breeder may well be touchy about the prey/predator scenario.

'No one told them they were predator and prey' oh come on that it totally in their instinct.

No one told my kittens that my gerbils were pret but that didn't stop them constantly trying to get them!

It is illegal to feed live food to snakes in this country and there is a good enough supply of dead mice and rats for snake food. I doubt people would go to the hassle of going to a breeder with a bullshit story to pay more for a live rat.

How could you possibly not know that cats and rats are predators and prey?

You need to check the terms of your contract with the breeder. You may well find that it entitles her to keep an eye on things and take the rats back if they are in danger.

I think the breeder sounds like a twat and I would ignore her. But, breeders do have a responsibility to try to make sure their animals go to sensible homes, and she probably thinks you aren't being sensible which I agree with I'm afraid. I don't think the kitten thing was an issue, but you are certainly foolish to let a dog lick a rat. Have you ever seen a dog kill a rat? They grab em and fling em up in the air to break their neck- it happens very quickly and dogs can be unpredictable. So unless you want dead rodents I suggest you keep em away from cats n dogs!

Currently in my livingroom I have one 30kg staffie, one house rabbit and one guinea pig, no one has eaten anyone, I also currently have 4 cats, 2 are out and 2 are on my bed, one of the cats (we got as a kitten after we got the guineas) frequently sits in the guinea cage in grooms her, when out the cat catches and eats mice but in the house she cosies into the guinea pig, she likes the cosy hay!

I wouldn't be happy if anyone ranted about choices, I'm not using any of them as bait or for fighting!

Tbh OP, I think you are acting really irresponsibly and negligently.

You cannot overcome natural animal behaviour just because you want your animals to be friends.

That licking behaviour may start as washing, but can become predatory in an instant.

My full sympathy with the breeder, though I agree that you lose all say once you have sold the animal. Hopefully the breeder will be more careful who she sells to next time.