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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think many benefits punish the prudent people that do the right thing

129 replies

ladygingina · 04/10/2014 08:05

Aibu to think that many benefits are counter productive and reward people that don't do the right thing?

I mean why bother saving any money because I'd you have a five figure amount in the bank you won't get many benefits. But if you just waste all your money and have zero in the bank the government will give you money.

Also it seems better to rent rather than buy so the government will pay all of your housing costs if you loose your job.

I just think many of these reward people that we silly with money and it doesn't encourage people to behave responsibly.

OP posts:
Smilesandpiles · 04/10/2014 11:41

I feel like doing a bit of baking today,

does anyone have a good recipie for a really good chocolate cake?

Mrsjayy · 04/10/2014 11:43

Yeah cos when I was on benefits I squandered my inheritance first that could have been put responsibiliy put towards a deposit for a house stupid us how irresponsible Hmm op dunno what world you live in but certainly not mine

3nonblondeboys80 · 04/10/2014 12:33

i think op was probably badly worded. I agree that there should be a safety net and think there should be no stigma attached to claiming benefits. I have a relative on jsa. She worked hard and was made redundant. She could claim contribution based jsa for 6 months and than had to live off her redundancy payments. this money has now gone and she is surviving on Jsa. She has worked intermittently but there isn't much work for a 60 year old with no qualifications and no transport. Well apart from 16 hour per week min wage jobs which will leave her no better off.. Had she brought her council house under right to buy she would probably have been repocessed by now.
I left home and purchased a house living very frugally.Met dh and sold my house. We are doing ok but if we split up I would be screwed. Neither of us could buy each other out so house would have to be sold. yes, I would be left with maybe 75k but that is only 75 months of rent in our area. Of course I would not be entitled to any benefits so I would be forced to go back to work even though It would hardly be worthwhile after paying for childcare. So over 20 years of paying a mortgage by me and dh would be wiped out.
i have no problem with benefits going to those in need but the system does seem to be unfair to those who purchased a house or live with someone who saved.
ie my sisters dp is retired with savings so she qualifies for no benefits in her own right.

Missunreasonable · 04/10/2014 12:59

I'm sick of all this divide and rule. Everybody should get sufficient help with housing costs if they are out of work and have insufficient savings. Mortgage payers and tenants should both have an equal safety net which means they won't be forced to move house based solely on not being able to afford rent / mortgage. Mortgage interest support is very insufficient in almost all cases and LHA is insufficient in many cases too.

daisychain01 · 04/10/2014 13:28

ladygingina I dont tend to comment on threads about benefits, because I havent had experience of having lived on benefits, nor the feelings that are associated with it, due to being vilified and looked down on. I have put in over the years in taxes, but so have a big majority of other people so many views and opinions exist. Most of them best kept private because they can be offensive.

What I would say is that it is massively inflammatory to associate the term "reward" with benefits, in any context. Talking about being better blowing all your savings because then it means you would be eligible for more benefits is a ludicrous concept.

By and large, people dont choose to be on benefits (OK lets put aside the Daily Fail's "case studies" of car-crash families, they are very misleading).

We are all of us one small step away from disaster, we only need to fall ill, be made redundant and suddenly we may need help, when we were feeling secure in a job and a home. That can all be taken away as the crisis eats into savings.

So, talking in terms of reward for "doing the right thing" is way off beam. Quite frankly its all shit, struggling to survive, whichever way you look at it. My DB has just been diagnosed with a brain tumour, so is highly likely to give up work, suddenly and without any warning. He lives in US so no welfare state, he wont feel rewarded for having put aside money, it is just the right thing to do, it is no different to people in this country, it is responsible if you have the wherewithall, that what you do. Life is unpredictable, I wouldnt wish adversity on anyone irrespective of whether they have saved it or "blown it".

daisychain01 · 04/10/2014 13:32

Sorry I mean rewarded for not doing the right thing.

I probably should t be on here today. Too churned up about my brother to be thinking straight Sad

3nonblondeboys80 · 04/10/2014 14:16

thats awful daisy.

ladygingina · 04/10/2014 14:49

All these terrible things are terrible. But I don't see why so many have got a chip on their shoulder and pretending I'm spouting out benefits bashing stuff, when I haven't.

I'm just saying for me I would of been better off if I splurged my money and didn't save it.

OP posts:
Smilesandpiles · 04/10/2014 15:06

Because it's coming across as bitter.

Your posts so far are all pretty much saying that those on benefits SEEM have it better than you did/do, and because you saved up so it's not fair.

You're also being insulting because some of the posters on here, have no choice but to claim because their savings, that they used to have, have run out thanks to illness, redundancy, lack of jobs or a family member with disabilities. So, saying that you were seen to be "doing the right thing" in saving, you've also insinuated that those who have sod all left, except the benefits that are coming in (for the moment anyway) have always been in the wrong and have deliberately got themselves in this mess - and yet you should be better off than they are.

You have to remember that we've seen your argument a thousand times before, each getting nastier and nastier with each thread you you have also hit a sore point.

Yes, the system doesn't seem or indeed IS fair on a lot of points, but no one will agree that if you have savings of a large amount, that you should be able to claim benefits that are designed to either be as a safety net until you find work OR to help support those who really need that extra help.

You clearly haven't intended to insult anyone or claim that you deserve more because you've saved up and done the right thing, but that is how it's coming across. You wouldn't have been better off at all if you hadn't have saved up - you seem to be very bitter about that.

ladygingina · 04/10/2014 15:52

But I'm on benefits myself. I'm just talking about my situation, and I would be better off if I hadn't bothered to do the right thing and save. Still don't see why people feel the need to pretend I'm calling benefits people scum and all that, when I'm doing nothing of the sort.

OP posts:
Smilesandpiles · 04/10/2014 15:56

You wouldn't be better off if you hadn't have saved THAT'S that point we're trying to make.

You are trying to compare what you get with what you THINK others get or what others have led you to believe. Now you know what it's really like, it's going against what you used to think - that's why you are pissed off and think it's not fair.

Others feel the need to tell you you are calling everyone else benefit scum, because that's how your posts are reading! You may not mean to but everything you have said far is saying the opposite.

Smilesandpiles · 04/10/2014 15:56

Stop calling it "the right thing"

You are not helping yourself.

ladygingina · 04/10/2014 16:00

But I would be better off. I'd have my mortgage interest payed, discounted travel, a free boiler, free prescriptions, council tax huge reduction, free dental, free eye test etc.

If I had of put all my money into buying a car, then I could of claimed all of the above and had an asset to sell.

Well I'm calling saving the right thing. But it hasn't helped me particularly.

OP posts:
vickibee · 04/10/2014 16:03

When uc comes in it is also tested on capital where TV are not so some. People on low incomes but capital will lose their entitlement , is this fair? No incentive to save you at as we'll spend it on holidays or a car or whatever?

Smilesandpiles · 04/10/2014 16:07

Get over yourself.

Most people don't get those things and no one gets a free boiler.

Missunreasonable · 04/10/2014 16:11

Some people are entitled to 'free' replacement boilers.

Missunreasonable · 04/10/2014 16:13

www.free-boilers.org.uk

Info on 'free' replacement boilers. Other websites have info too, it's quite a well known scheme.

Dawndonnaagain · 04/10/2014 17:14

You are allowed savings of up to £6,000.

markhammax · 04/10/2014 18:15

I do sort of know what you're getting at OP - I'm on benefits at the moment. Im not proud of it but am so grateful as I know without the generous welfare system (and it is generous to be fair) id basically have had to give dd up for adoption, as I wouldn't have been able to afford to have her.

I do work as well but if I do any more than 16 hours I lose money so in a sense it doesn't pay to work and it should and it should pay to save as well.

TaliZorahVasNormandy · 04/10/2014 18:20

I'd rather have savings and a job rather than being on benefits, as such I have to stick with the benefits til I either win the lottery or get a well paying job.

ladygingina · 04/10/2014 18:48

Mark I think if you have young children and work a bit the system is generous. If you don't and you have just JSA as an income (70 minus tax) then its a stingy insulting amount on suitable if you were very lowly paid. Im resentful of a system that I've paid so much tax into you because it screws single people over.

Contributions JSA should not be the same amount as income based. It should be 90% for the first few weeks and gradually go down to the 70 a week after 6 months. Then it would be a proper safety net.

OP posts:
ilovechristmas1 · 04/10/2014 20:22

i got a free boiler approx 1yr ago

they do exist

LuisSuarezTeeth · 04/10/2014 20:25

if you have young children and work a bit the system is generous.

Errrr... I'm sure you're right. You too, Mark. Generous indeed.

markhammax · 04/10/2014 20:29

Luis I have a young child and claim because I can't really work and cover childcare costs and it definitely isn't lacking in generosity - I'm really grateful for it but yeah ... The government do look after single mums ime at least

ThePinkOcelot · 04/10/2014 20:41

I do get where you are coming from in a way. When I was made redundant in 2010, having worked from being 16 years old (42 in 2010) I was only entitled to contributions based job seekers allowance. £65.45 a week, I think it was. I was entitled to nothing else. I would have been able to get help with my mortgage but only after having been on job seekers for 14 weeks! I was only going to be entitled to job seekers for 6 months.

Had I been on means tested job seekers, I would have been entitled to free prescriptions, free dental and housing benefit (if I rented) straight away.

I was a bit perturbed that that was all I was entitled to after working my whole life. Luckily I wasn't on job seekers for very long and was over the moon when I could go in and sign off.

I certainly didn't have £000's in the bank either.

There is certainly something wrong with the system somewhere!