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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think mansion tax is an unfair tax on London and the South East?

560 replies

goodnessgracious · 03/10/2014 12:11

I disagree with mansion tax but regardless it seems to me to be unfair on Londoners.

Aibu to think that it may also force some people to sell their properties who are income poor but property rich?

OP posts:
OverWorkedAndAggrieved · 03/10/2014 16:48

If you are to tax the rich, those in the south west can have large houses with land (not gardens!) horses erc for less than £2m and likely have way more disposable income that a working couple in west london mortgaged to the hilt commuting to work and paying children care!
Fair?

OverWorkedAndAggrieved · 03/10/2014 16:50

Sorry for the typos!

Greengrow · 03/10/2014 16:58

All the newspaper articles are about old people with no mortgages and few costs. I have not seen one about hard working Londoners who have over £1m in mortgage debt, no savings, £30k a year childcare bills, both working full time and very long hours who paid 7% stamp duty to buy their fairly small 4 bed without garden. Those are the people who are hit - they have very little capital/equity in the house and may not be able to remortgage to move because in April 2014 mortgage rules changed. Eg they may have borrowed before childcare was asked about on mortgage applications and now they have since had a baby and their expenses are higher.

The devil may be in the detail. Someone asked if we would be happy if it were a tax on over £5m properties. Perhaps although the principle remains the same. The problem with that is there are so few houses at those levels that it would not be worth bringing in the tax.

I have no problems with house prices dropping at all. Move my house to the NE where I came from and no way is it near £2m. I am going to stay in this mortgaged house until I die, probably 40 - 50 more years so whether it is worth 10p or £10m is utterly irrelevant whereas if I had some savings (I don't) as cash at bank that would feel more like useable wealth than having some equity in a house you will never sell or leave.

As someone said if it could apply to the top 10% of houses by value in all the regions that would be fairer too.

My biggest fear is that the Council will not believe the houses on this road are worth under £2m as zoopla says they are worth over that. Yet we have only had 2 sales over £2m ever and many well under. You can find a valuer to say anything. Also they differ. We used every penny to buy this one and have not spent a penny on it ever. My elderly neighbour has no carpets even. Others have swimming pools and cinema rooms. Is the council going to send in men to look at each house and decide Mr Millionaire with his Aston Martin and house done right up is worth £2m whereas mine or my neighbour's is not or will they be conned into thinking we are over £2m due to zoopla's prices?

Chandon · 03/10/2014 16:59

yanbu

Our house is worth so much we could never buy it now.

The fact the house is worth a lot does not make us rich, as it is not actual money we have, unless we sell and move somewhere smaller.

We are on teachers' income, so how would we be able to pay any of this fantasy tax? Also, the money we used to buy the house has been taxed already, when it was earned.

double tax really.

Although right now our house is not anywhere near the mansion tax limit.

But if they keep lowering it, ultimately the owners of 2 bed flats and 3 bed semis in the southeast will be penalised.

Some people on here clearly hate Southerners, or homeowners, or both, so it will suit them

wooooosualsuspect · 03/10/2014 17:00

LA house rents are not subsidised by the tax payer.

wooooosualsuspect · 03/10/2014 17:02

Actually the outrage on this thread is making me laugh. Now you know how the 'poor' feel.

Not a nice feeling is it?

Chandon · 03/10/2014 17:02

ehm...where does the money come from? From the Gvt? ie ...tax money?

niceguy2 · 03/10/2014 17:03

Unfortunately some people, especially those at the beginning of the thread, don't see anything other than 2 million and think rich, loaded = no empathy.

^ This.

As others have already said, firstly you are in effect taxing people again for something they've bought with income they've already paid tax on.

Secondly you're moving the goalposts for people who may be living in high value properties because they were lucky enough to buy at the right time or inherited properties.

Lastly once you introduce a tax like this, the risk are the cutoff limits slide just like the 40% tax bracket has. Once upon a time I'm sure 40% seemed like a tax only the wealthy paid except now it's paid by a lot of middle classes which was never the original aim.

The same principle applies here. They set the limits at £2m now....but what in 5 years time when Labour need another spending spree that sounds good on paper? Ooooh we'll tax mansions over £1m and pay for 500 more nurses....i mean nurses have to be better than the rich living in their million pound houses right? Another 5 years....£750k houses! Those rich bastards. We can now pay for 500 teachers! And so on.

Frankly we need to get better at what we spend already rather than continually think that throwing more money at a problem will solve it.

Labour chucked £64 BILLION on a computer IT project for the NHS. What have we got for that? We can now make appointments online at some hospitals..... Whoopee. That was worth it then!

Sleepwhenidie · 03/10/2014 17:04

Extract from an article in Management Today gives the statistics on what types of property will be hit by the tax...38% of the 'mansions' are actually flats:

Ed Miliband’s populist plan to tax owners of homes worth more than £2m would mainly affect owners of flats and terraced houses in London, rather than detached ‘mansions' of the Downton variety, according to estate agent Knight Frank.

Its research found that 38% of all properties in the capital which exceed the £2m threshold are flats, followed by terraced houses on 36%. Just 14% are detached.

'The figures demonstrate the mismatch between perception, in particular the term "mansion", and the reality of the London property market, where three-quarters of £2m-plus properties are either flats or terraced houses,' said Tom Bill, head of London residential research at Knight Frank.

The research also demonstrated the disproportionate burden of such a tax on London, where the majority of £2m+ homes in the UK are located. In fact 46% are located in just two boroughs: Kensington and Chelsea and the City of Westminster.

Chandon · 03/10/2014 17:04

woooosualsuspect, ah, I see.

It is just being vindictive to those better off.

You would probably support anyone who could afford a house at all, for that house to be taken away.

are you a communist, or just a vindictive socialist?

Greengrow · 03/10/2014 17:07

don't worry. I never expect anyone to feel sorry for people who might have to pay the mansion tax. It will require a Labour victory which is unlikely or a Labour/lib dem coalition which is possible, to become a reality.

Also when it comes in houses like mine which are on the margins, possibly over £2m will be worth less. £2m is already a barrier for buyers because of 7% stamp duty so I expect it will be possible to argue if you are just over £2m now that you are under once the tax comes in as £2m will be a sort of cut off. I have no problems with house prices dropping as my house is a home not an investment or potential future cash. That will also make it easier for my children to buy properties.

Sadly the mansion tax is quite popular as the UK is stuffed with people jealous of those who chose to work harder than they are who made more money. Not a nice place really if you have worked hard to earn money and paid loads of tax. You never get any thanks.

Sallyingforth · 03/10/2014 17:10

I don't agree with the comparison between the 'bedroom tax' and 'mansion tax'

I didn't say they were the same. There are huge differences. I was pointing out that at both ends of the market there are individual cases where the legislation will be unfair. It's impossible to have a totally "fair" tax.

Whether someone pays tax or loses a benefit, the result is the same - less money in the pocket.

ouryve · 03/10/2014 17:11

Surely, it's going to affect all people who can afford to live in a £2m house equally. And people are just as likely to be property rich but cash poor in any part of the country.

Nancy66 · 03/10/2014 17:13

It's not about 'feeling sorry' for people who live in £2million properties. it's just about what's fair - this tax isn't fair.

wooooosualsuspect · 03/10/2014 17:14

Now I'm laughing at the idea that only those who own 2 million pound houses work hard.

wooooosualsuspect · 03/10/2014 17:16

The bedroom 'tax' isn't fair.

Didn't stop most of MN saying ' just move then' did it?

Sleepwhenidie · 03/10/2014 17:20

where did anyone here say only owners of £2m houses work hard usual Confused?

Nancy66 · 03/10/2014 17:22

I agree with bedroom tax isn't fair.
I just wish politicians of all parties could come up with a credible solution to raise revenue other than these crazy knee jerk ideas that, in reality, generate fuck all.

ouryve · 03/10/2014 17:22

We own our homes we aren't taking state handouts whilst living in a subsidised local authority homes that are bigger than we need.

Yes, because typical LA/HA houses are massive Hmm

Sleepwhenidie · 03/10/2014 17:23

As someone posted earlier, if you are going to tax 'the rich' then fine, but why should the owner of a £2m house be taxed on it when the owner of a country estate worth £1.8m, a £1.5m crashpad in London (and overseas homes) and seven figures in the bank be exempt Confused?

wooooosualsuspect · 03/10/2014 17:23

'Sadly the mansion tax is quite popular as the UK is stuffed with people jealous of those who chose to work harder than they are who made more money'

There^

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 03/10/2014 17:26

This is the sort of property people expect to get caught by the mansion tax(but won't be)
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-45622318.html

Whereas this one will be
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-46828325.html

I don't believe for one minute the threshold will stay at 2m

wooooosualsuspect · 03/10/2014 17:27

It's been stated on this thread enough times that the rise in property prices in the SE is down to luck,regeneration, etc not hard work.

So don't start spouting the its 'down to working harder than anyone else' line.

PetraArkanian · 03/10/2014 17:28

I'd like to know why it's fair for someone who lives in a 2m house with a 1m mortgage to have to pay this whereas someone mortgage free in a 1m house (so with the same actual asset value) doesn't?

LadyWithLapdog · 03/10/2014 17:38

Looking at nethouseprice.com for a house similar to the first one linked: asking price now 2.5 million. Bought in 2010 for 1.5 mil. Rich then too. Same house bought in 2002 for 400k, quite a lot of money in those days as well. So based on one example I'd disagree that it's some poor sod who now will have the wolf at the door.

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