to think mansion tax is an unfair tax on London and the South East?

[goodnessgracious]

I disagree with mansion tax but regardless it seems to me to be unfair on Londoners.

Aibu to think that it may also force some people to sell their properties who are income poor but property rich?

First of all let me say I don't live in a £2M house and probably never will!

I do however live in the South East and many of the houses near me are worth that but why should people have to 'sell up and commute'? I chose to work close to home so I don't have to commute so I can actually enjoy my life outside of work rather than spend it on the train or in a car and it would be the same regardless of how much my house was worth.

Tondelayo

"Why not add the tax as a charge on the property's deeds to be paid when the property is sold or by the estate?"

So what happens if the charge is put on the estate and then the property prices free fall? Someone could end up not being able to move because of the debt over the property.

Also if the property has not decreased dramatically in value there will be higher rate stamp duty to be paid on that property anyhow by the new purchasers and the movers in their new property. Why tax them twice?

Surely if you own a £2million house you are better off than someone who owns no houses and is stuck with paying exorbitant rents to a landlord because you can't afford to buy your own house because you are taxed too highly on your income.

JADS - I don't think it would really bring house prices down in the short term at lease. It would just remove any sort of diversity in areas with expensive housing. As those who can't afford to pay the tax will invariably sell to those who can. It would be the short term effect which would have the most detrimental affect on areas and people.

salaries and house prices should be more equal- mansion tax really is not the answer.

Yanbu. Mansion tax should take into account the average value of properties in the area, say 10 times the average value constitutes a mansion. I still find it absurd, it's not like the house is making any money for you, it's not income. You work to buy a house and pay income tax, you pay stamp duty, you pay interest on your mortgage so the bank pays tax on the profit they make from you, you pay a higher rate of council tax. If you die, your children pay inheritance tax. That's quite enough taxation on property.

It's bullshit and full of problems eg how to value the property. They can't even work out a decent council tax system let alone something as complicated as this.

Tax on income, or tax on capital gains is easy to work out and easy to prove. Tax on the 'value' of something is very difficult. Anyone who has had dealings with share valuations and HMRC (eg for a company LTIP scheme) will know. Value is highly subjective

Anyway, if by some awful turn of stupidity this does get passed, it should be a tax on your total property portfolio - so a £1.5k house in london plus a £500k country retreat get hit same as a £2m mansion.

spidergirl Not saying that richer people shouldn't be taxed more. That is fair generally; but this particular tax effectively taxes wealth which has been taxed once when it was earned and will be taxed again on death. It also pushes people out of their homes. Those two things make it unfair.

You seem to be obsessed with people being taxed twice GoodnessGracious. People are not taxed, transactions are taxed. I don't go and buy an item that has VAT with my (taxed) income and then think "oh no! I've been taxed twice!"

I also agree with everything TondelayoSchwarzkopf put in their post.

Tondelayo

But the government reaps taxes through their property when they die. It is still being paid from the money from the owners (deceased or not) investment. It is irrelevant that the money will ultimately be paid by the beneficiaries or the parents, stamp duty AND inheritance tax will be paid on that property.

Tondelayo

FFS the mansion tax is not a purchase tax is it!

I also aree with whois in that if they are going to bring this in then it needs to be based on property portfolios, i.e. the total value of all properties owned. That way if someone owns 10 houses worth 200k each, they pay it too.

Oh I agree with Tondeleyo on prioritising everything else she said. Why on earth to we tolerate foreign investors making money from UK land without paying the same taxes as people living here would?

However, I still support both mansion tax and inheritance tax, despite both being likely to live in a 2m house in future (if it all goes to plan, who knows!) and also standing to inherit in 7 figures. I think if you are privileged enough to gain this much unearned wealth, you should share. I'm not a great supporter of higher income taxes as it dis incentivises hard work and discourages financial mobility.

I hategeorgeosborne - yes, I suppose if you live in a £2m house at the moment there is a high chance that you're better off than someone paying high rents to a landlord.

However, if you have a low salaried job and you're in that £2m house for reasons other than you have heaps of disposable income (e.g. such as area improving, bought a long time ago) then no, you're really not in a great position are you? How do you pay the tax? Sell and move to cheaper housing? Where will that cheaper housing be? Will that then push prices of "cheaper housing" up thus making it even harder for people to actually get on the ladder in the first place. Plus then you might have to move further away from your job so you might have to leave your job as you can't commute that far for childcare reasons. How does that help?

I think the mansion tax is quite a good idea. It will help to curb the astronomical prices in London which people on here are always complaining about and rightly so.

it seems a daft, kneejerk tax that in reality is going to collect very little money.

ohhh look at these 'mansions'

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-29364990.html

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-46286665.html

Vixt. That was my point. Taxed multiple times all because your are successful.

This government is really good at dividing the masses.

Ihategoergeosborne - there is already that sort of tax - it's called Capital Gains Tax and paid on any profit on houses that's not your residential home. So, you'd have ANOTHER tax on top of CGT and SDLT??

@ the houses people are linking to. The London bubble just gets crazier and crazier. How are people paying those prices?

as usual, politicians targeting the wrong people.

there is something about the tax system which means that London is very attractive to foreign investors who buy up property and leave it empty. There is something very wrong if it makes financial sense to do that.

apparently this doesn't happen in Paris because of a difference in the French system.

I don't know the details of what makes it so financially worthwhile to buy houses and leave them empty, but I do know that it is wrong. So, whoever is in government, sort it out eh?

Viviennemary - no I think it will drive lower incomed families out even more and increase the super-rich (who don't actually care about the income tax). Initially house prices just won't come down - the people who can't afford to pay the tax without selling will sell, to people who can afford the house AND the tax and so the cycle begins. I can't see how it will bring prices down.

sorry - meant don't care about the mansion tax (though doubt they care about income tax either!).

My point is MrsDe, is that if people are fortunate enough to live in £2million pound houses, they are clearly well off. Yes I know they worked hard, etc, etc, but people who work who don't stand a chance of buying a house work hard too. I know many in this situation. You can't keep taking off them and allowing house prices to increase further out of the reach of the people who are being taxed more and who will never have a home of their own. If income tax continues to increase there will many who have to move from their mortgaged / rented properties as they can't afford them either. I still maintain that someone in a £2million house is in a very good position. At least they have options. Where does the person downsizing from their 2 bed rented hovel go? Agree with Vivienne too, perhaps people won't be so keen on their house going up in value every year and it will put the breaks on the housing market. I say that as someone who has just bought my first house, so no vested interest from me either.

No - the point is that they are not clearly well off!! You can't make that assumption for everyone living in a £2m house. That is clearly a sweeping statement and judgement. Their options might be to sell, move, give up their jobs etc - just the same as someone who rents. All to pay a tax that is highly unfair and might result in them being out of work and then turning to the state for help. How does that help anyone?

The mansion tax will just keep the value of houses high. I can't see how it can do anything other than this. Valuers can't just "down value" houses to avoid the tax - that is fraud!