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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Referendum question

62 replies

millymollymandy46 · 02/10/2014 23:33

AIBU to think that Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond should have attended the Service of Reconciliation at St Giles Cathedral after the Referendum, arranged well before 18th September?

OP posts:
OldLadyKnowsSomething · 03/10/2014 01:13

MacMillan exposed himself as a bigot years before National Collective even existed. I ask again, on what basis do you claim that Salmond is besties with Soutar? How does MacMillan feel about being on "the same side" as the Orange Order? You started this derailment, at least have the backbone to follow through.

As for Salmond and Sturgeon not attending a particular church service, meh. Should they also attend every religious service (of all religions) in their constituencies/Scotland, given that might take up quite a lot of time surely better spent actually running the country?

chipsandpeas · 03/10/2014 01:29

i dont get what your problem is with Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon not attending

maybe they didnt want to go/had other appointments/couldnt be arsed

FannyFifer · 03/10/2014 07:57

Soutar is a bigot due to his religious beliefs, the irony of a religious service to encourage unity when religion is what causes most of the divisions is laughable.

Personally I don't think religion has any place in politics whatsoever.

PhaedraIsMyName · 03/10/2014 09:25

The issue is everyone knew the referendum was going to be divisive. The service was intended to be a "let's get on with things no matter what" event. By not turning up Eck and Nicola look like sore losers and that they have no intention of just getting on.

Their agenda has never been what is best for Scotland as neither can see past independence. As for religion not being a part of politics Salmond had no qualms about getting the Catholic Church on side when it suits him.

So far as James Macmillan. He is a Catholic. He has spoken at length over the years of the problem of sectarianism and anti Catholic prejudice. Personally I think he exaggerates it , but my family are Catholic from the North east . It may well be different in the West and Glasgow.How that makes him a bigot is not clear. Just saying he's a bigot over and over doesn't make it a fact.

Behoove · 03/10/2014 09:28

Taking religion out of it (even though the service was in a church), I think they didn't go because unifying the electorate doesn't suit their political aims. Simple as that, politics not religion.

ConkerTime · 03/10/2014 09:37

Behoove I agree. Divisiveness is at the heart of their USP.

PhaedraIsMyName · 03/10/2014 09:49

As for Salmond being too busy "running the country" he was certainly busy that weekend stirring further division as that's when he announced Cameron had reneged on his promise. Which Cameron had not.

FannyFifer · 03/10/2014 10:44

You don't think "the vow" has been reneged on?

Numanoid · 03/10/2014 11:22

YABU. I don't want there to be a divide, but being an atheist a church service means little and less to me. Plus it seemed like a publicity stunt.
As this question has been asked before, I would urge anyone concerned to email Salmond and Sturgeon (contact details can be found through Scottish Parliament website) and ask why they didn't attend, and you'll get a solid answer. Even if it's from an assistant, they'll still be able to find out. They are usually very quick to respond. :)

As the "big 3" parties (as in the old big 3 - Labour, Tories, Lib Dems) have reneged on their promise, and Gordon Brown is saying we need to sign a petition to get them now Hmm I think Sturgeon has acted in a very calm and collected manner, saying they will still push to get the powers and saying that the next referendum will not be for a while yet.

Behoove · 03/10/2014 11:43

You may be an atheist Numanoid, but the concern is that Salmond and Sturgeon didn't attend, with respect, not you.
Tbh, Atheist or believer, makes no difference, the visual impact of standing together with their political opponents would have made a difference to the atmosphere in the country. By not attending their message was clear.

PhaedraIsMyName · 03/10/2014 11:48

You don't think "the vow" has been reneged on?

No. And Salmond announced that on the Sunday before anyone had time to draw breath. No reason other than causing division.

FannyFifer · 03/10/2014 11:56

So why then has Brown jumped on someone else's petition to beg the leaders to honour the vow if it's not already been reneged upon?

The vow that he promised was set in stone & what he campaigned on.

Promises

Guarantee One

?? New powers for the Scottish Parliament.

?? Holyrood will be strengthened with extensive new powers, on a timetable beginning on September 19, with legislation in 2015.

?? The Scottish Parliament will be a permanent and irreversible part of the British constitution.

Guarantee Two

?? The guarantee of fairness to Scotland.

?? The guarantee that the modern purpose of the Union is to ensure opportunity and security by pooling and sharing our resources equitably for our defence, prosperity and the social and economic welfare of every citizen, including through UK pensions and UK funding of healthcare.

Guarantee Three

?? The power to spend more on the NHS if that is Scottish people’s will.

?? The guarantee that with the continued Barnett allocation, based on need and with the power to raise its own funds, the final decisions on spending on public services in Scotland, including on the NHS, will be made by the Scottish Parliament.

?? The Scottish Parliament will have the last word on how much is spent on health. It will have the power to keep the NHS in public hands and the capacity to protect it.

Numanoid · 03/10/2014 11:58

You may be an atheist Numanoid, but the concern is that Salmond and Sturgeon didn't attend, with respect, not you.

I know, but it seems like a bit of a non-issue. Maybe they aren't religious, or didn't want to be part of a publicity stunt. Has anyone contacted them to ask? That would be the best thing to do if people are concerned about it. They do reply very quickly.

With regard to the promised powers:

www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/holyrood-must-wait-three-years-for-new-powers.25494906

To be fair, I think the vow has been reneged on. If we get them, but not for a while yet.

Behoove · 03/10/2014 11:59

Maybe it's more to do with Brown staying in the public eye, not that I'm at all cynical Wink

Numanoid · 03/10/2014 12:00

So why then has Brown jumped on someone else's petition to beg the leaders to honour the vow if it's not already been reneged upon?

I wondered this myself. I didn't mind Brown before, but his speech just before the referendum put me right off him. But regardless of personal opinion, I can't tell if he genuinely believed what he was told, or if he knew there wasn't much chance of the vow being kept. It could be either, there's every chance he genuinely believed it would be honoured.

Behoove · 03/10/2014 12:03

Salmond and Sturgeon were happy to be pictured and allied with with Canon Kenyan Wright during the campaign though. Don't get me wrong, I don't give a fig about the religious side of it, all politicians can play a hypocrite card when it suits them, not just S & S. As I said above, they didn't go to send a political message, simple as that.

millymollymandy46 · 03/10/2014 12:46

It seems that Kenny MacAskill doesn't think there is any need for reconciliation. Asked by Sarah Smith at the Law Society of Scotland's conference this morning about the need for reconciliation he apparently said no.

twitter.com/newsdirect/status/517965651370319872

Surely a country divided is not what our leaders should want, even if it fits in with their political agenda.

OP posts:
Behoove · 03/10/2014 12:48

At least he is honest, although I think he is very wrong. Not a fan of his anyway and this confirms my view.

PhaedraIsMyName · 03/10/2014 13:15

As I said above, they didn't go to send a political message, simple as that.

Exactly. And Fanny everything you mention relates to a later period. Salmond was too busy to attend a non- denominational event designed to promote unity as he was already too busy promoting discord.

I do not agree the vow was broken. Frankly I don't care but if it is to be kept I want it dealt with in an orderly and considered manner not dictated by Salmond and Sturgeon's timetable.

FannyFifer · 03/10/2014 15:56

Everything I mentioned was taken from "the vow" issue of the Daily Record.

Tbh I personally will find it difficult to work with politicians locally who campaigned & were involved with no campaign.

I am always polite & pleasant of course as I was during campaign but some of the stuff that was going on was pretty abhorrent.

Is S & S feel the same then I can't say I blame them.

Just yesterday for example, the Labour Party who campaigned against the poll tax are complaining about SG quashing 25 year debts. Using the electoral roll for these purposes is not on, part of the reason why so many people stayed unregistered.
The Bain principle in action.

OldLadyKnowsSomething · 03/10/2014 16:06

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p027v2p8 On that subject, Fanny, did you hear Alex on the radio this morning? It's about 15 minutes, but well worth the listen. Grin

FannyFifer · 03/10/2014 16:15

Alex fae Strichen, lol.

Numanoid · 03/10/2014 16:22

Tbh I personally will find it difficult to work with politicians locally who campaigned & were involved with no campaign.

Although not local to me, I can't listen to Ruth Davidson anymore. It seems like the woman can't open her mouth without saying something utterly offensive (and often untrue) about Scottish people.

Going back to the OP, there is an easy way to solve the question:

Contact Alex Salmond

Contact Nicola Sturgeon

It's the only way to find out why they didn't attend.

Behoove · 03/10/2014 16:28

I heard that on the radio. AS handed the Aberdeenshire msp/councillor? his arse in a sandwich. I'm no fan of Salmond or his politics, but I enjoyed that.

PhaedraIsMyName · 03/10/2014 18:11

Oh I have on a couple of occasions contacted Salmond and Sturgeon. They sent stock replies which did not address the question. But I'll try again.

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