To ask you to object to this? Pre-paid benefits cards

[LuisSuarezTeeth]

a step too far

We're talking about human beings.

Thanks Arsenic and those that have already signed.

Where the fuck have I said anything remotely like that?

I can see you have read some of the words I have used, but obviously not the sentences in which they were written.

Unbelievable! You are actually attacking someone who wholeheartedly believes in the social state and the whole benefit system!

Where the fuck do you think benefits come from? Cloud cuckoo land?

Who are you addressing? Because I'm quoting you directly.

I have said I would include pensions, Trident is a red herring, there is national debt.

So yes, I suppose I have said expose all our disabled to the cold and kill them off. I have said all on benefits are scrounging bastards who need to be drowned.

Unbelievable! Weird day on MN obviously!

No, unfortunately it's not a weird day on mumsnet, it's situation normal for those with disabled family members, those who are carers, those with a need for access to benefits. This country is fucked so lie down and take it. Well, quite frankly, bollocks to that. This country is fucked because Osborne is unable to manage an economy. That's not my fault and I do not see why I should have my choices removed because the state pays me .36p per hour to look after three people with disabilities.

Ration books weren't like a prepaid credit card - you took your normal money and shopped normally with it, but you could only buy as much as you had ration tokens left for, and the book would have the ration tokens removed or cancelled to show what you had taken. So not really relevant. The most relevant aspect was that you had to register with a particular shop for your food.

Nomama, the Azure card system and its predecessor voucher systems have been running since 1999, with a small group which have little public sympathy. The system has been halted twice by Parliament due to its excessive bureaucracy and extremely negative effect on those who have to use it but it is one of those things that the government, Labour or Coalition, like because it can be waved around to show that they are not soft on [insert group here]. It's not a new system at all and has been well tested.

My point was that if there is more information on spending patterns there could be better focus

Adding to the list of unanswered questions: Why should this information be gained by controlling how recipients manage their lives? Apart from everything else, there's an inbuilt bias to that because much of low-budget shopping can't be done with a debit card.

No extensive survey of how welfare customers budget & spend has ever been done. I made a professional suggestion as to how this could be carried out.

There is no reasonable justification for controlling people's lives on the basis of untested assumptions. I would suggest the real rationale is the hugely profitable contracts such a scheme would create for some Tory corporate cronies.

Wot she said.^

Tricky I asked where you shop to demonstrate the point that there is likely to be a restriction on where you can redeem your pre-paid card. If you shop at Tesco and Lidl, but these supermarkets do not accept the card, you will then be forced to shop at say Morrisons or Aldi.

NoMama Please could you state the potential positive changes you envisage as a result of some or all claimants being allocated this pre-paid card?

yes i object.

I would be pleased if my alcoholic SIL was given one of these cards and had to spend her benefits on food rather than gin. She might actually live a bit longer than we fear at the moment. Why should we be her enablers?

Maryz Azure is for Asylum seekers I believe. They don't have residency, so no access to a bank account.

Azure Card report by Red Cross

But she doesn't have to spend her benefits at all Abraid. She can go on not spending them on food.

What may actually happen is she'll end up spending LESS on food, because she'll trade the vouchers or vouchered goods disadvantageously on the black market, ending up with less money - while maintaining the spend on alcohol, because she's an alcoholic.

Perhaps that's right--I don't know. I just know that while she can buy drink, that's what she does. And she is dying of it.

LuisST, I could live with changing to Aldi or Morrisons, but it is a non-argument as there is no reason to suppose the card could not be used widely.

It would be a pity if reasonable opposition to the card is devalued by silly and groundless assertions.

Concerns about managing an already tiny food budget whilst being hampered by restrictions on where it can be spent (and there logically will be) are hardly "silly" and "groundless".

If you live 5 minutes from Tesco, but have to walk 10 miles to Morrisons, can you not see that might present a problem? You may only be able to get to small, local shops that are unlikely to be included in such a scheme.

Where the Azure card can be spent

Note the absence of the two main "budget" supermarkets.

There is a note about using "local" retailers though.

I wonder if some people realise how many government schemes are "pay to play"?

The government often requires that schemes be "self-funding". It collects fees from companies wishing to take part: if the company wants the customers, it has to cough up the fee.

Smaller companies (and sometimes bigger ones) often decide it's not worth their while.

Of course we don't know whether this will happen with benefits vouchers. But it's by no means groundless to suggest it might.

I think this is a way of introducing benefits cards to the masses. Let's start off with those who use their benefits money funding drug and alcohol habits. That way it sounds like an attempt to help them. Then let's roll the scheme out to smokers, fat people etc until before you know it all benefit claimants will be carrying these cards.
I have a relative who is a drug addict and I can tell you it will take one hell of a lot more than one of these cards to get him off drugs. He needs help and support, and more important than that he needs to want to quit (he doesn't). These cards will cause him to commit more crime to feed his habit.

I was just about to mention that raltheraffe the rate of muggings and shoplifting of booze going through the roof.

I would be stuffed if I couldn't shop in aldi. They dont take credit cards so I don't see them taking these cards.

Unsurprisingly none of those shops are near me. I'm well aware of the "pay to play" situation. That's why there's a massive problem in the county I live in with milk vouchers.

I have read the terms and conditions about the Azure card, truly scary reading.

Oh Jesus wept, the Azure card scheme is run by Sodexo. Don't they have contracts for privatised prisons too? I wonder how much money they make out of this .