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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not want my kid to go to a mosque ...again!

425 replies

moaningminnie2 · 01/10/2014 14:46

We live in North Yorkshire and every year the village Cof E school run a whole-school trip to Bradford.First they went to a mosque, then the following year a Gurdwara and then a Hindu temple, and now this year back to a mosque again.They do that in the morning, then have lunch and a run around in a park, and then in the afternoon a quick visit to 'Bombay Stores' and then back home for school pick up. DD and her friends don't want to go ( they went in Y2) and I resent having to pay £13 for each of my 2 kids at the school.Whaty is the point of going to the same place again, and do the school get 'Brownie Points' for doing this sort of RE trip.

OP posts:
nonameslefttouse · 01/10/2014 20:27

If everyone is dressed modestly and praying why would they be looking any anyone's bottoms? What if the women are looking at men's bottomed? Like I said it's all open to interpretation. You feel it's out of respect that's fair enough we all have our opinions

lem73 · 01/10/2014 20:29

It wouldn't solve the problem. Men could still see the bottoms of women in front...
I guess people will just think what they want anyway. I'm surprised and disappointed at some of the posts on this thread.

DecisionsDecisionss · 01/10/2014 20:33

Yanbu OP. I don't see why there is so much pandering to political correctness. Do they learn about sharia law too?

YeGodsAndLittleFishes · 01/10/2014 20:34

OP, do the children get to go on trips for other areas of the curriculum? Art galleries, theatre trips, sports and team building centres, museums, places of different geographical interest from the school's location, etc? If there are not trips and visits for other areas of the curriculum, or if they have just the minimum of one other a year, then that is rather disappointing. I think it's great that they take the children to different places of worship and see no harm in returning to a mosque every couple of years (but agree that a synagogue, Jain temple, Buddhist centre, cathedral and other religious centres would be a good idea, but other types of trips are just as important.)

Also agree that £13 seems too much. Are they paying for the mosque visit?

nonameslefttouse · 01/10/2014 20:36

I'd be more concerned about going to a place of worship where segregation takes place because men cannot be trusted not to perve over your bottom whilst praying

Flipflops7 · 01/10/2014 20:39

Depressing to think of kids being dragged around religious establishments. I can only hope the old saying that the teaching of comparative religions makes people comparatively religious is true.

EmilyGilmore · 01/10/2014 20:39

I think it's a good thing for children to learn about other cultures and faiths. I hope the local Muslim schools organise trips to churches and synagogues, do they? To broaden understanding and, dare I say, encourage an outward gaze.

Aeroflotgirl · 01/10/2014 20:46

I agree, the Mosque wouldent bother me, buy why £13 for a trip to the Mosque and park.

Tiptops · 01/10/2014 20:47

Nonames with respect, you have totally side stepped what I objected to. You stated that women are treated as second class citizens in Islam, which is utter nonsense. Yes all faiths are open to interpretation to some extent but the Islamic stance on women is certainly not one of viewing women as second class citizens. That is not open to interpretation, it is enshrined in scriptures.

You want to teach your children to treat those as they find them, yet you yourself just tarred a whole religion (and thus hundreds of thousands of people) as treating women poorly? Hmm Right.

Guitargirl · 01/10/2014 20:58

I would stay away from the whole 'women being in the rows behind men to avoid having their bottoms stared at' argument to be honest. I don't think it does anyone any favours!

jchocchip · 01/10/2014 21:00

Bradford City Park is awesome. Opened 2012. Lots of school trips come and picnic by the massive fountains, and take a trip around the City Hall. Media Museum is also worth a trip. Bombay Stores is great, but wouldn't have thought it an ideal location to take a lot of children.

lem73 · 01/10/2014 21:02

I grew up in the West of Scotland where, as most people know, there is still a lot of bigotry between Catholics and Protestants. In our village we were extremely fortunate that the Catholic priest and church of Scotland minister worked hard to bring the communities. I was brought up Protestant but spent a lot of time visiting the Catholic church with my school. I knew the priest just as well as I knew the local minister. Obviously bigotry still exists Scotland but my experience was very positive and really opened my mind. I don't agree with some aspects of the catholic faith but I have huge respect for it as a church.
This is why I think kids should get the opportunity to visit different places of worship and even better if they get to talk to the priests or sheikhs or whatever. You don't have to agree with a religion in order to get along with members of that faith.
Btw I have known Muslim children who have been banned from visiting churches with the school and their parents have kept them at home. It very worrying for the future when children aren't being brought up to respect and tolerate other peoples' faiths.

ilovesooty · 01/10/2014 21:09

I don't see why there is so much pandering to political correctness

What "pandering" is going on here?

And the phrase "political correctness" is generally trotted out by people wanting to justify their inherent unwillingness to find out about other cultures and beliefs.

Whiskwarrior · 01/10/2014 21:13

How are people still managing to be so completely ignorant about the difference between being religious in school and learning about religions in school on this thread? The mind boggles!

The scariest part about the ignorance of some of these posters with their 'no one should be doing religion in school, yeah' attitudes is that they probably have children in school and yet have no idea about what their children are actually learning. Do some of you honestly believe that if your child visits a place of worship on a school trip that they will be trying to convert your child into that religion? (Obviously this doesn't apply to the people who are intelligently explaining why they feel that all schools should be non-denominational, including CofE and catholic - but I doubt I need to explain that to those people because they're not ignorant bigots).

And as for the Sharia Law comment - what a fucking stupid, stupid comment to make. Although I would be perfectly happy for my DD to learn about what Sharia Law is in her PSHE lessons.

As always with this kind of thread some breathtakingly shocking and ignorant bigotry knocking about.

BigRedBall · 01/10/2014 21:21

Fine don't send her then. Why don't you take her to your local cesspit instead to learn about what goes on in the brains of racist prejudice twats in the world. Bet I know where she'd rather go...

workhouse · 01/10/2014 21:29

I think what some people are trying to get across is not that the facts about religions should not be taught in schools, but that a massive great chunk of the school year should ideally not be about the fine details of religions. They need to know facts, and that is all. My son is not friends with muslims he is just friends with CHILDREN, they never talk about it amongst themselves, they're just not that bothered. If I asked him the religion of his friends he wouldn't have a clue. and we live in a culturally diverse area in London, by the way.

Somebody upthread suggested that a visit to a place of worship should be serious and not a fun day, rubbish. Make it fun, keep it it light and factual. Thats all they need to know in my opinion.

babyboomersrock · 01/10/2014 22:02

you don't fit the profile of someone who is going to commit a terrorist act! your partner and his brothers do. That's not racist, that's fact

What?? Because he's a man with brown skin you mean? Have you any idea how that must feel? One of my brothers has Pakistani ancestry and it breaks my heart to think that he might fit some ignorant person's idea of "what a terrorist looks like" just because of his sex and the colour of his skin. It's repulsive to make assumptions - or have suspicions - about people, based on their skin colour, sex, clothing or the language they speak.

To get back to the OP...I'm amazed the 8 year old and her friends can even remember the details of what they did when they were 5. Did they sit around discussing the repeat visit in the playground and agree that it had been boring last time?

Or did one of their parents say "What? The mosque again??"

I lived near Bradford for years. I met people like the OP all the time - inoffensive on the surface, deeply racist underneath. Oh, and often "Christian", too.

babbas · 01/10/2014 22:08

Lovely to see all the racists out in force tonight.

Muslim bashing has become quite the norm on mn these days.

CrimeaRiver · 01/10/2014 22:09

Oh FFS.

Let them go, don't let them go, whatever. Don't think the Muslims, Hindus or Sikhs around you could give a flying fuck.

Jeez. Some people live in such tiny little worlds....

Gileswithachainsaw · 01/10/2014 22:09

To get back to the OP...I'm amazed the 8 year old and her friends can even remember the details of what they did when they were 5. Did they sit around discussing the repeat visit in the playground and agree that it had been boring last time

Doesn't that depend on how it was done?

All these accounts of amazing visits and lots of food and nice people sound fab.

But it's just as possible that it was some boring uninspiring trip. I re kneeler being dumped on a load of mom ds with my class and told it was some castle and given no information, no stories etc. It was literally a bunch of kids running about mounds with a few foundation stumps of stone.

Had there been people dressed up or re enactments or a medieval banquet prepared it would have been interesting.

The same could well apply to this.

Gileswithachainsaw · 01/10/2014 22:11

And that applies to any trip.

lem73 · 01/10/2014 22:21

To be fair to the OP, a parent should not have to pay £13 for this. That is a lot. I know these school coaches are expensive but the school should find a way of making it cheaper for the parents if it's of educational value.

VeryStressedMum · 01/10/2014 22:21

Totally agree with pp saying children get different experiences of the same places when they are older.
All children should learn about other religions. They learn intolerance from their parents usually.

BlueBrightBlue · 01/10/2014 22:28

Bloody hell, talk about walking on egg shells!
What if OP said " I don't want to fork out on £ 13 for my kid to go to Stonehenge because he went 3 years ago.
I discussed this thread at dc's gymnastics club tonight. Most of the parents are Muslim, Sikh, Hindu and a few atheist agnostic etc.
They all said how soddin' patronising it was to Asians.
You see, a lot of us live in multi cultural areas where race and religion are mutually accepted and we just get along, because we have been doing so for decades.
I'm white, I'm in the minority and I don't any have issues with that.
I'd be thoroughly pissed of if dc had to visit any place of worship for £13.
Don't get me started on Black Music Month.
People are people regardless of their origins.
I think the "right on crew" just serve to reinforce prejudice.
I do however have issues with benefit migrants, people who feign illness in order to gain disability benefit, regardless of whether they are black white or effinn' purple.

Whiskwarrior · 01/10/2014 22:36

Oh, why is there always the assumption on these threads that those of us who aren't racist are middle-class 'right-on' types who don't know any ethnic people? And funny how the people who bang on about how 'patronising' we are always discuss these threads with their many ethnic friends who totally agree with them.

FWIW, I grew up in a very multi-cultural part of Birmingham. I've already said that in my primary school I was one of about 20 white children. So please don't assume I don't know about multi-culturalism. I've lived it just as much as you BlueBrightBlue - so much for your assumptions, eh?

I couldn't give a shit how multi-cultural your area is and how many non existant ethnic people you spoke to about this thread, racism is racism. Paint it any way you like.

If this thread was just about a) the cost or b) the repeat of a trip then there would have been no need to mention the mosque at all.