To be tired of teachers exaggerating

[onarailwaytrain]

Dd and DS (twins) in year 11 at the moment and all we have heard is how they have to get their GCSEs, their lives will be ruined if they don't, they will never get to college and never get a good job. Etc.

Dd in particular is unlikely to get many cs or above. AIBU in thinking the teachers should back off a bit?

Have you tried thinking outside of the school box? Could you afford to access a skills assessment/coaching type of service? This could help them see other possibilities, have a plan, and start working towards it. Self-employment for example, or developing a particular skill or interest. You could make sure that they had every opportunity to get the tuition or hands-on experience that would help.

Honestly, GCSEs are not the be all and end all. We are just so brainwashed and invested in that belief as a society we think it is the only route to a successful working life.

I think the 10,15,20 years ago thing is really relevant. I've just completed my degree (I'm 37) and have joined the ranks of the unemployed graduates despite the fact that I've got a 15 year work history! (FWIW I scraped GCSEs and then dropped out - but I lived in a London suburb in the boom 90s where one simply temped until one was offered a job and went from there.) It's not even that I'm setting my cap at a 'graduate job' it's just where I am there are very few jobs (and I'm incredibly lucky that DH's salary pays the mortgage and bills, so I have nothing to complain about other than a 'wtf was the point in my degree?' level of self pity.)

Eldest DD has just declined to finish her A'Levels after getting appalling results at AS (Ds despite being predicted As) against all my advice. I get that she was fed up and felt kicked in the teeth as she worked so bloody hard (she really did) for, in her eyes, nothing. But blimey, she's bored senseless (works 20 hours a week and volunteers) and I'm having to bite my tongue and not say 'I told you so!!' about five times a day. Meanwhile she rants about how easy I had it, and how bloody difficult it is for her generation...

Younger DD has just started AS and did the bare minimum for GCSEs, despite all my nagging encouragement, but she got what she needed to move on to ASs.

I think teachers, parents and students are all suffering. I've had the rant from my DDs about how they're told that their life will be over if they don't get the grades, and it is frustrating, no doubt. Equally, my best friend is a head of department in a secondary school and I see regularly the stress that she's under re results and targets. I think the teachers really mind the way the system is set up too (as evidenced on this thread).

Surely both parents and teachers want the same thing, i.e. for each young person to reach their potential and have the smoothest possible path into work and adult life? I don't see that competitive misery/stress between parents and teachers helps at all. for the OP, because I've been there with both DDs in tears with stress and worry, but also to all the overworked teachers out there who are really up against it.

"How very very dare you"

You and your kids really need some independent careers guidance.

Very true.

Has any of the Connexions service survived in your area?

If they have they were useless in our case! When my son couldn't get an apprenticeship they could only suggest going back to school for A'levels (when he struggled for GCSE's)

I think the teachers really mind the way the system is set up too

Of course they do-and now they are getting shot for pointing out how things are now (and that is not how they were 20yrs ago, 10 yrs ago or even for school leavers last year)

Even at university things have changed-a 2:2 was a perfectly respectable degree but now it will rule you out of a lot of things if they have a whole pile of candidates with higher.

I think the worst thing Gove did was remove the chance for kids to sit GCSE's multiple times by making only their first result count in league tables.

My DD1's school got 100% of the kids through Maths and English GCSE by putting the kids in for it in Year 10 and then concentrating on the ones that had not yet passed with a C. They resat the exam at every opportunity and were working in a group with a very senior maths teacher who provided study incentives like pizzas and Mcdonalds for lunch.
A couple of the kids only passed at the end of year 11 but they had so much encouragement and support to do so.

A very good point made by pp that they will have to re sit. I was not aware that this policy had actually come into play.

That was where I gave my links-it was different for school leavers this year, and for future years, than ever before. I think it has passed most people by-or they haven't taken on board the implications.

I know you said that they both have the support that they are entitled to, and that you have liaised with the SENCO, but have they had in depth assessments by an EP? At 14, my DD (who was struggling to keep up) was told by the SENCO that there was nothing wrong with her, and she was just lazy. Turns out she has a complex language disorder, severe dyslexia, and SPD. It needs specialist testing to uncover a lot of learning difficulties. After moving schools and having appropriate support (inc in exams) she has passed her GCSEs and is doing A levels in (very!) non academic subjects.

Your DTs will need to continue in some sort of education next year. It sounds like they are very conscientious and work as hard as they can, which is wonderful. The staff should be praising them for this, and not berating them for (potentially) low exam results. I am just concerned that their learning difficulties have not been fully assessed and that there could be more help for them.

"I think the worst thing Gove did was remove the chance for kids to sit GCSE's multiple times by making only their first result count in league tables.

My DD1's school got 100% of the kids through Maths and English GCSE by putting the kids in for it in Year 10 and then concentrating on the ones that had not yet passed with a C. They resat the exam at every opportunity and were working in a group with a very senior maths teacher who provided study incentives like pizzas and Mcdonalds for lunch"

The problem with the mindset was the idea that a C is good enough. Putting kids in for GCSEs in year 10 and then concentrating on those who haven't got a C meant that many children could not do GCSE maths.

Surely a half decent school can identify strugglers without the time and expense of sitting public exams numerous times. Mock exams are better way of identifying strugglers. Unlike public exams teachers can see the scripts of mock exams and see which areas need reinforcement.

If a child still fails GCSE maths/ English then they can do resits at college. It really is not the end of the world.

Dh is a teacher. I'm not saying he exaggerates but he came home yesterday saying a boy had stabbed somebody at school.
Turns out a maths lesson with a compass just got a bit out of hand.

That's the problem isn't it Delphium? It's not what the person spec asks for that determines what qualifications you need. It's who else is applying for the job.

None of the staff employed 10-20 years ago in my job have English and maths at C or above. But now we have 120 applicants for each position. We haven't short listed anyone with less than 5A*to C or employed anyone with less than a level 3 qualification in 5 years.

Yes, other qualities are important but we're not short of people with those qualities applying. We'd consider someone with lots of relevant work experience, good references and no qualifications but it's unlikely that a recent school leaver without Cs in English and maths will get anywhere near the short list at the moment.

It would be interesting to know if OP was aware of the recent change in policy.

Exactly Rafa-that is why it is so hard and after being nurtured through the system it really is like meeting a brick wall. It wasn't like that when I was young. I really feel for them. I can't tell you how many sleepless night I have had over it!!
I can't blame people-if you haven't been there recently with your children you can't know what it like out in the real world.
I do however think they need to listen. It may all work out fine, but it is as well to be prepared.

Graduates with good degrees from good universities are staffing our shops, bars, care homes etc , while they try and find graduate level work, so it doesn't leave much hope for the school leaver without basic qualifications.

My nephew is working as a carer at the moment, with an English degree from a very good university-he is one of countless. It is not what he wants to do but he needs to live.

Delphiniumsblue that is utter bollox!

Being a graduate doesn't turn someone into a super being. The fact is that many employers would rather have a school leaver to staff our shops, bars, care homes. They want someone who will stay and be reliable.

There are lots of options for the OP children. Have they been to any open days at their local college.

YABU.

I left school with only two GCSE's due to health issues and it was a barrier to both work and further study. I had to top up my qualifications at night school

Tiny bit irrelevant posters saying "My boss doesn't have any qualifications and earns more than me," isn't it? The world unfortunately has changed.

OP they told me exactly the same thing. I got two Cs in English and a B in Spanish (all thanks to Ann Maguire too! God rest her soul) I was told because I don't have "good" passes in Maths and Science, thats it, life ruined, i'll be on the dole for the rest of my life.
Now, I work in a friggin' solicitors office on apprentice wage because I got my finger out of my arse. GCSEs mean NOTHING. They just mean you can do your A levels. Big wow! The teachers DO need to back off! that puts a downer on your DCs and will make their grades go down. I'd tell them to shut up about it. Teachers are there to help you pass your exams not say "your life will be ruined if you don't do this" like they did with me. no wonder I failed maths and science (as well as everything else.) Damn.

Some kids need to be told about the reality of doors being closed for them if they don't get the basic qualifications. I was one of them, my teachers comments about me not being good enough spurred me on to prove them wrong. I went onto do A levels, degree and professional job. My mum also had a lot of faith in me, which provided me with the confidence to succeed. At 15/16 some kids do benefit from being reminded that a bit more effort now will pay off with more life choices being available in the future.

Just list a long post , but the ignorance of some teachers re college entry requirements on this thread is sad .

Many level 2 college courses require a profile of Ds and level 1s ES or below . Students take functional skills maths and English to get them to a C hopefully .

My dyscalculic ds had just started a level 1 course with a G I maths and a D in English .

OP, have you, in all seriousness, considered moving to Scotland. We no longer external exams at 16. Children are assessed by their teachers at that point. The only children who sit external exams are those who are academic.

There are no resits. There is no legal obligation to remain in education until 18. The system may suit your children far more.

I worked with a secondary teacher two years ago whose pupils (very like your DCs) were following the 'Seed to Sawmill' programme with the Scottish Forestry Commission. It was a long programme giving every child who took part a chance to see every job in the organisation. From the outdoor work to the office staff to the education dept. The school I first worked in (3-18 all through school) runs programmes in agricultural as that suits the local area in terms of cohort and available jobs.

The CfE has it's criticisms but it does has positives too. Every school can adapt their curriculum to suit the students it has. A secondary school in inner city Glasgow is unlikely to offer the agricultural programme as the jobs market isn't there. Whereas for the school in Highland Perthshire, that I referenced, it is ideal.

At the moment, the Scottish and English systems are further apart in their approach than at any point in history. It is a population scale educational experiment. The research potential, for educationalists, is enormous. Let's just hope the children succeed though...

Stargirl that sounds so based in common sense I can hardly believe it. We have become used to such utter bollocks, such contrary crap, such politicised awfulness coming out of Whitehall dressed up as education policy. Why why why why? Why cannot common sense prevail? Poor kids :(