tot hink its basic animal/human instinct to stick up for yourself when someone starts on you

[magicpixie]

got into a fight showdown yesterday with this idiot man out side a pub

the idiot nearly reversed into me, he couldnt have been looking what he was doing,he went up a lane of the car park where there was no spaces, except at the back, and decided to just start reversing with out looking he reversed back about 10m meters

of course I had to sound the horn other wise he was going to crash into me

so then he started shouting at me!!

so a shouting match kicked off.

then we both parked up
then as we where walking into the pub

he started coming over to us and started shouting at me again, saying idiot stuff like
I went berserk at him,
I said of course I sounded the horn you where about to crash into me
then he shouted oh dear

what he was saying when he was shouting was totally idiotic

his wife looked v embarrassed and ran off in front into the pub

then this shouting match carried on between me and this man
for a few mins
then dh grabbed me and pulled me out of the way asif he was stopping me from hitting him or something when I wouldn't have done anything of the sort
but I would do anything to defend myself

then dh said the man that's enough now

the man carried on

so dh rasied his voice and said I said that's enough and sort of raised both hands in the air, like in a hold up position
[you know like you see in films where the police say put your hands in the air]
a sort of give up sign

then the man started saying don't put your man up to me
to dh

then he started trying to shout again
and dh said for the third time I've told you that's enough

and then he actually piped down

however today dh told me I need to be careful
not to get myself into fights as the idiot was a "fat old bugger"
as if was in the wrong for simply sticking up for myself

I told him I cant help it self defence is a basic human instinct

My point, merry, is that both are instinctive (or unevolved, if you prefer) reactions!

yanbu why should you let someone get away with that , i would do exactly the same .

I think you can be assertive without fighting or threatening...

or shouting.

Quite likely Yonic but at least I'm not making a total spectacle of myself effing and blinding. I'd rather just cut someone down to size quietly and walk away.

If ever I see a shouting match happening, I have no sympathy with either party. It happened in Tesco carpark the other day and I'm pretty sure someone walked behind a car that was reversing out. It ended up in an unholy spectacle with both people screaming abuse at each other. Where does that get you? Nowhere.

You're probably more likely to get hit or for the person shouting to follow you if you come out with something like that, though.

It's a risk I'd rather take. I think it's more likely that someone spitting abuse inches away from your face is more likely to end up physical.

Also, nothing humiliates a shouting man more than the cold steely glare of a someone clearly not intimidated by them, but with more self control. Then when the shouting has died down state your position clearly, don't wait for a response and walk off. It's far more a "win" than a shouting match.

^this.

I have worked in male-dominated industries for years. Lots of men who are "rough and tough". I am a blonde woman. Sometimes bully boys try to intimidate me.

No, never run away to hide from the big bad man. Yes, women are conditioned to take it and slink off. This hands him superiority.

A shouting match? No way. Shouting matches are had with equals. A twat like that is not my equal.

My tactic is to stare the fucker out. Back straight. Stand tall. Head up. Eyes of steel. Your whole body language must ooze I am not the slightest bit intimidated by you. Channel your inner Tony Soprano. You are the boss. You know you are the boss. He is beneath you.

If you feel safe enough, try the amused and bemused face of oh my god you are so funny carrying on like this hey everyone look at this knobber. Kind of like when a toddler is shouting at you that you are totally unreasonable for not feeding them haribo for dinner.

If it goes on for a long time, check your phone, reapply your lipstick, read your paperwork, all while he is shouting at you. Anything to make him look small and unimportant to you.

He has to stop shouting sometime. That's really awkward for him if you are not engaging and are not scared of him do not appear scared of him.

If he flounces off, say something like "Isn't it weird how some people never grow out of tantrums? Imagine carrying on like that because someone beeped when you nearly crashed into them. God it must be exhausting living like that."

If he runs out of steam but doesn't flounce off, make a factual comment about the situation "I beeped my horn because you were about to crash into me". All in a steely tone with full eye contact. Then walk off. Ignore anything else he says or does.

Tony Soprano. Who would be the female steely equivalent?

I'm not saying instinct is bad or avoidable. Different parts of the brain work in different ways and evolved at different times. We need them all. However sometimes instinct takes over and you need your pre frontal cortex to put it back in its box.

The fight or flight response triggers hormones that prepare you to run from or fight a sabre toothed tiger. That's great if you are infront of a sabre toothed tiger or your toddler runs into the road.

It's not so great when you are trying to manage somebody who has lost their temper. This is why people who work in customer services, the police, casualty on a Saturday night etc. are trained to deal with tense situations calmly.

Yeah don't shout back at a bully who shouts at you, it's not ladylike, will embarrass your husband and label you as undeveloped unfemine chav material.

Men like that I like to laugh at, make fun of and absolutely to shout back at sometimes. Like you I have fight not flight, I also have a reluctance not to confront for fear of being hit and over years I have defended my ground against arse grabbers, bad drivers, non poo pickers, aggressive bnp supporters and assorted other idiots. And in a culture that wants us to be scared of standing out, making a show of ourselfs, being unfemine or accuses us of 'asking for it' I am pleased to do so vocally and visibly.

I think it is just as stupid for a man to get involved in a slanging match and it is probably more likely to end up in a police station or hospital.

This isn't about not standing up for yourself. It is about standing up for yourself calmly, intelligently and effectively. It's about protecting yourself by not getting pulled into somebody else's drama.

I don't to think the DH was embarrassed. I think he was worried about getting glassed over a parking incident. Does that make him less of a man? No. It makes him a man who isn't wasting time on hospital and court visits because some git lost his temper.

I am sure everybody on this thread has lost it with somebody at some time, and the OP had justification. It also feels patronising to be told to calm down. It is still the right thing to do.

I like the ideas of steely calm / laughing at them, but that is going to really fuck them off even more and so what do you do when they punch you in the face?!!

In reality depending on my mood I would probably walk away and then let it fester.

Seven being steely calm is a great position to watch body language from and be ready to move. You don't necessarily protect yourself by walking aways - it's easy enough to get hit from behind.

Nevertheless, most people who shout aren't going to punch without having the situation incrementally escalated.

I wont have that people speaking to me like shit. I don't do that, so I wont take it back. Simple as that.
Therefore in answer to your question. Y.N.B.U

I punched a man once because he lifted my top up in a pub chocful of customers and the whole pub fell about laughing. Slunk up behind me and did, dirty fucker.

I used to be a pushover until that day, walk away etc etc. Never again.

of course i judge situations these days. I chose not to engage with the man who shouted sexual stuff at me and my little girls on the bus a couple of years ago, i just got off the stop after him and called the police. Driver did nothing

Why should women stand there and take the shit. I certainly dont. I have had years of being bullied and that destroyed my self confidence. When I finally found my gob people took note, not a push over anymore.