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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that ten days later the "no voters are selfish", "no voters are stupid", "no voters betrayed Scotland", "no voters are forcing us to pay for war", comments should have abated a bit?

91 replies

ArcheryAnnie · 29/09/2014 12:56

Seriously, am still seeing a flood of bile on my TLs against no voters - no attempts at reconciliation. I'm going to have to block or mute people I thought were reasonable, as it's just not stopping.

I totally get that people are seriously disappointed, and that's going to be expressed for a while, but it seems that nobody in the country can get a hangnail without a yes voter posting about it with a "ARE YOU HAPPY NOW, YOU STUPID, SELFISH NO VOTERS??11!!" comment.

Thing is, if there was another referendum tomorrow, is it really the best way to change people's minds by constantly calling them stupid, selfish, gullible, betratyrs of the Scottish people, unScottish, etc etc etc?

Weirdly enough, I'm not seeing anything at all from no voters on my TL - nothing either positive or negative. They've all (in my corner of the internet, at least) all gone to ground.

OP posts:
indyandlara · 29/09/2014 18:54

Would like to point out that the word Jock in relation to Scotland is actually pretty offensive. Take umbridge at the term 'Jockism'.

BuggersMuddle · 29/09/2014 22:42

Couldn't agree more. I've stopped following a few people on Facebook who continue to talk an inordinate amount of shite about the referendum & no voters.

The very same people who would have told me that 'a yes vote isn't an endorsement of Salmond' are now suggesting that a no vote must be an endorsement of Cameron et al.

This week I have been variously accused of being: pro-fracking; pro-intervention in the middle east; wanting to reduce benefits for young people; being duped by 'The Vow' (my vote was decided long before); being stupid and being a cunt.

Some people just don't seem to grasp that a voter could be unhappy with many aspects of the status quo and still think the alternative is a worse option.

Behoove · 30/09/2014 11:14

Interesting development about collecting unpaid tax from people who have been avoiding their dues by coming off the electoral register. Sorry long article.
Councils move to collect unpaid tax from thousands who signed up for indyref vote

Daniel Sanderson
Tuesday 30 September 2014
THOUSANDS of people who signed up to vote in the independence referendum face the prospect of official letters landing on their doormats demanding unpaid council tax.

Record numbers registered to have their say in the vote on Scotland's future, which saw the highest turnout, at 84.6 per cent, of any UK poll since the 1951 General Election.

But now local authorities are being urged to take advantage of the high registration levels to recoup arrears from those who joined the electoral roll in the months leading up to the vote.

There are claims the unprecedented database created ahead of the September 18 vote is an opportunity for councils to uncover fraudsters and recover debts - some of which date back 20 years - from those who may have come off the roll to avoid detection.

Aberdeenshire Council has confirmed it is checking the updated database against households that receive the 25 per cent single person discount for council tax, in an effort to uncover cases in which it has been claimed inappropriately.

City of Edinburgh Council sources also confirmed checks would be carried out, comparing council tax records to the newly updated electoral roll, and more authorities are expected to follow.

Cosla, the umbrella group that ­represents many councils, said local authorities were within their rights to use "whatever sources of information are available legally to pursue unpaid debt".

The Scottish Conservatives backed a clampdown, saying it was right that authorities took every opportunity to recover debts and detect fraud.

However, Scottish Green Party co-convener Patrick Harvie accused his opponents of being motivated by a desire to "punish marginalised communities for having the nerve to express themselves at the ballot box".

Mr Harvie, who was a leading figure in the Yes campaign, said: "We've finally seen huge numbers of people re-join the electoral register after decades of mistrust following the poll tax, and I'm dismayed that the Tories or anyone else should want to turn electoral registration once more into a way of policing people."

But Alex Johnstone, the Conservatives' welfare reform spokesman, said: "Councils should do everything in their power to detect those who are evading council tax payments. If that means going through the electoral roll with a fine-tooth comb, so be it.

"Local authorities are under extreme pressure to live within their means, and council tax avoidance makes that even harder. It is also hugely unfair on the vast majority who play by the rules and pay their council tax on time and in good faith."

Aberdeen Tory councillor Alan Donnelly said he backed using the updated register to track down historic poll tax evaders. He said many of the so-called "missing million" who became re-engaged in politics ahead of the referendum vote had come off the roll to avoid the controversial levy. A mass campaign of non-payment when the community charge was in force between 1989 and 1993 prompted many to come off the electoral register.

Although councils cannot pursue debts that are more than 20 years old, the period is extended by a further two decades if a warrant has previously been issued to collect unpaid bills.

In 13 of 21 council wards in Glasgow, there were 40,000 amendments to the electoral register between March and September 1 as members of the public updated their details or registered.

A Cosla spokesman said: "Every pound of debt collected is a pound for frontline services. Councils do not write off debts."

An Aberdeenshire Council spokeswoman said: "Any new voters are checked to see if we already have them noted on council tax."

A City of Edinburgh Council spokeswoman said: "The council uses all the data available to it in order to collect outstanding debts."

However, Glasgow City Council added: "It becomes increasingly difficult to secure payments from historic accounts as time passes."

zukiecat · 30/09/2014 11:32

It's my brother with me, he just will not accept the No vote (I was firmly in the No camp) and he is still posting a heap of rubbish about how we've betrayed Scotland and how he is a "True Son of Scotland" and other such nonsense. We're all sick of him, especially as he doesn't even understand some of the stuff he is posting and just goes all William Wallace and Bruce on us.

Things have moved on since 1296 and 1314!

ArcheryAnnie · 30/09/2014 21:04

Just seen the vile benefits card scheme the Tories want brought in described as a "BetterTogether Benefits Card Scheme" by a yesser. As someone who has always worked to oppose these card schemes (including the ones that already exist, which the asylum seekers who use them hate), I find this really fucking offensive.

OP posts:
saintlyjimjams · 30/09/2014 21:09

Just had a bunch of posts on my timeline wanting no voters to die & saying they only care about themselves (& are all rich bastards).

I'm going to hide that particular feed from my timeline I think because it's really dull now

trixymalixy · 30/09/2014 21:14

I've lost a lot of respect for certain friends and family members. Several of them have been unfollowed on FB because of the utter shite they are posting. The more they post the more it confirms to me that a no vote was the right way to vote.

MorrisZapp · 30/09/2014 21:15

Yup, we're all pro war now. Despite the fact that the last Iraq war was waged by a Labour gvt that Scotland voted overwhelmingly for.

An independent Scotland would never back a war, apparently.

MorrisZapp · 30/09/2014 21:17

I agree trixy. And they're marching for a 'revote'. They should be careful what they wish for. I dare say the no vote has strengthened in the face of this patronising shite.

trixymalixy · 30/09/2014 21:18

Some people just don't seem to grasp that a voter could be unhappy with many aspects of the status quo and still think the alternative is a worse option.

Totally agree with this buggers.

amicissimma · 30/09/2014 21:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SantanaLopez · 30/09/2014 21:35

I find it ironic how everyone was lying before September 19th.

Now everything that comes out about Labour/NHS and oil, for example, is touted as the god honest truth.

lem73 · 30/09/2014 22:13

I wonder how many Yes voters are secretly relieved.

PhaedraIsMyName · 30/09/2014 22:30

I know one extremely successful business man, SNP supporter, holds fund raising events , donates all solely for lobbying purposes, who was in an utter panic at the thought Eck might pull it off.

StatisticallyChallenged · 30/09/2014 22:31

Some people just don't seem to grasp that a voter could be unhappy with many aspects of the status quo and still think the alternative is a worse option.

Totally agree. I'm sick fed up of some of the crap I'm seeing on Facebook. I didn't vote no because I agreed with every existing government policy, nor because I expected to agree with every future one. Still think a Yes vote would have been a nightmare. But because it was a No, the more idealistic Yessers don't have to experience the reality of a Yes vote, so they can shout about how it would have been soooo much better if we were "free". I expect to still be hearing "it wouldn't have happened if people had voted Yes" for years to come.

BadtzMaru · 30/09/2014 23:10

I'm sick of bloody facebook too and I was a yes voter. I've unfriended someone who won't shut up about it from the other side. You got what you wanted, where is the need to keep posting about how Salmond is a liar, wants to ruin Scotland, we haven't given Westminster a proper chance to give us the extra powers that were promised and so on.

trixymalixy · 30/09/2014 23:38

Phaedra, is he going to continue to support the SNP?

On a similar theme, I have two friends who come from big Celtic families, who have been all "hope over fear" on FB, but admitted to me they voted No. Admitting that to their families though would cause all hell to break loose.

OneNight · 30/09/2014 23:39

I spent the 19th and 20th feeling tired and depressed and then in the light of circumstances that week I settled down to see if I could do something about the problems in my own extended family and friendship group.

I am afraid that I now think that there is little I can do. It seems as if the partisan views have in many cases built upon existing grudges and differences so that it is almost as if someone had opened and poured salt upon wounds which might have been healing or hidden until that time. People are no longer talking to people who voted in a way they did not vote themsleves and are indeed for example inviting people they perceive to be on their side round for dinners or out for the evening and to the excliusion of other members of the family.

I have seen some memorably awful emails beteen people of different persuasions and the degree of animosity has appalled me as has what they reveal about the way that people seem to have thought about each other for a long time but not articulated until now.

This only applies to my own family and friends of course and I am hoping that it will be restricted to the older people and that the youngsters including those who voted for the first time will work things out somehow. I have little hope that the older people will do that because they now seem to be talking about personality traits as the reason for dislike and not voting patterns except that the personality issues are only mentioned for those people who voted in a different way. Perhaps I am being unduly pessimistic.

Pyjamaface · 30/09/2014 23:51

I actually unfollowed 2 people on my Faceache today for the sheer amount of bile they have been spouting. Cowards, gutless, traitors and "move to fucking England where you belong" are amongst the nicest things they have been saying. DP has also been told he is not allowed an opinion because he moved to England 3 years ago and has been called all sorts of arseholes for daring to comment.

TBH it has made me so so sad. I lived in Scotland for over 12 years and always felt at home but now I'm left wondering if these friends were always thinking such horrible things the whole time

sconequeen · 01/10/2014 00:11

As a Yesser, I am sorry that some of you are being given a hard time for voting No. There are obviously some people who cannot split the intellectual from the personal. That is a real shame, but it does not mean the validity of the Yes argument is undermined. It probably doesn't make you feel any better, but there are No voters out there who are making a personal thing out of it re Yes voters too.

Policy and funding are the responsibility of the Scottish Government.

Can I correct this please? Policy re the NHS in Scotland is the responsibility of the Scottish Government. However, funding currently comes from Westminster. The Scottish Government can choose how it spends the money it receives from Westminster but it cannot influence the amount of money it receives. Therefore, any cuts in health spending decided in Westminster are very likely to result in cuts to the Scottish NHS budget. Whether this situation will change as a result of the new powers which are (allegedly) coming to the Scottish Government remains to be seen...

ConkerTime · 01/10/2014 00:14

I think it will take time, but how long?
I have acquaintances (frenemies?!) whom I just don't respect anymore. I am annoyed with myself that I can't let it go.

I'm sad too, pyjamaface.

PhaedraIsMyName · 01/10/2014 01:39

Phaedra, is he going to continue to support the SNP?

I suspect publicly yes for so long as they are in power. He definitely voted No. I suspect he's privately a Conservative voter.

FindoGask · 01/10/2014 05:18

YANBU, and I was a Yes voter! I have seen this on my newsfeed too and it's very wearing. It also casts all yes voters in a bad light - personally, I believed then, and still believe, that everyone has the same right to a vote and will have used it in good faith for reasons they believe in; it was a democratic process and the result should be respected.

trixymalixy · 01/10/2014 10:04

Ugh, two more unfollowed on FB. I just couldn't take the sheer hypocrisy of one sharing stuff about food banks and ending poverty now while I know they have commited tax fraud.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 02/10/2014 10:54

wish I'd seen this article a few weeks ago - Carol Craig in the Scottish Review about blind optimism, really chimes with my thinking.