to be depressed by all the threads about women having to tread on egg shells round their male partners....

[Hakluyt]

....men seem to get "irate" and "furious" about things and it's up to women to placate them.

That's not how relationships ought to work.

Always makes me shudder when I hear about the 'walking on eggshells'....
Frightening

Don't be depressed about it. Most relationships I know don't work like that. Can be the other way round as well. I wouldn't let a few threads lead you to believe that most women tiptoe around their raging men.

yes, it's depressing.

Although mind you, I extend that to walking on eggshells around any particular individual, be it a 'friend' a colleague, a mother, father, sister, brother or a boss. But someone you have to share a home with would definitely be the worst as there would be no respite, and most often that is a partner I suppose.

Just because it doesn't happen to "most" people, doesn't mean it isn't something we should take very seriously indeed, MizK.

I'm aware it's a serious problem in some dysfunctional relationships. What I am saying is that I don't think it's accepted as a norm and therefore I don't think it's something to be depressed by.

It is depressing. But more depressing how many of those who post them seem to believe it is 'normal' to have to live that way. Which it isn't.

But a lot of the women who post that, if you get deeper into discussion, grew up in a house where everyone tiptoed around the father, or grandfather, so it is ingrained to do it. So when their husband/partner turns out to be the same, they follow the old pattern.

Sad.

But at least on here they will get support, and be told that it doesn't have to be that way. And maybe a few of them will reach the point where they feel able to make a change.

I think women (as a class) always expected to be the peacekeeper, the appeaser, the one to smooth things over is something to be depressed about.

I have been thinking the same. Some of the threads are really worrying. Considering it normal acceptable behaviour to be called names, ignored and manipulated into apologising for non issues is upsetting. I hate the justifications for this behaviour too; lots of people work hard without turning into a bully.

Yes it is depressing.

I have been with my husband almost 20 years (not married for all of that time). He's a great man - fun, kind, loyal supportive. However, both of our fathers are "I will just shout over you until you give in" types and both of our mothers will manouvre around this - ensuring neither contentious situations were kept to a minimum.

I forgot how horrible it was growing up in this environment until yesterday (so very timely post OP!) when my mum and dad were having a "disagreement" about something really minor. It was really uncomfortable to listen to and took me right back to being a child/teenager with a knot of apprehension in my stomach or trying to play mediator.

What suprises me about our upbringins is both mt father and FIL are "nice" men and my mum in partuclarly is quite feisty.

I'm actually quite proud that my children won't have that churning stomach feeling when my husband and I disagree. Howver, my husband and I were together for a number of years before we had children/got mortgage/married so we did know each other thoroughly and had plenty of opportunity to see red flags before throwing out lot in together.

Interesting point, MumInScotland. In a recent thread I started, I said I was having trouble talking to my DP about an issue, and some people assumed I was scared or worried he'd get angry. As far as i was concerned, it's actually because I didn't want to upset him or hurt his feelings, but I did grow up in a household where we tiptoed around a very volatile parent who could be physically abusive, so I wonder how much of that has rubbed off on me?

I know that when I started dating DP, I did live in fear of angry explosions, and really tried to keep my head down and be placatory if he were mad at something unconnected with me (pissed off at someone at work for example and venting about it). I think this is definitely due to my upbringing and also to my last partner who was also very volatile and used to scream and shout at me if I said or did something 'wrong'. My DP in contrast has never raised his voice to me, even when we are arguing, so that wariness is gradually disappearing.

Woah - need to preview in future - how many typos???

I think there is definitely a link to your own childhood with regards to what you see as 'normal'.

Both DH and I grew up in households where there was no shouting, no intimidating of one person by another, and so we in turn would never ever think to deal with our disagreements by shouting at each other or arguing.
I would be devastated if he shouted at me or called me names. And I am always horrified when I read, frequently, on here 'it's normal to say hurtful things to each other in the heat of an argument, everyone does it'. Because to me it's not normal, not at all. But then I've been told that I'm very precious and very uptight if I can't see that it's all fine, so to be honest I don't know what to think. All I know is that personally I couldn't live like that because I am a nervous anxious person and I just couldn't cope.

I don't get upset by other people's descriptions of their dysfunctional and damaging relationships because I don't accept them as normal, average or even common. Women who are in equal, supportive and nurturing relationships obviously don't feel the need to post about them and fortunately they are in the vast majority.

Carmine I quite deliberately never post on here about anything my DH has done which I dislike, as I find there is such a prevalence of the 'tiptoeing' threads that posters are pretty much expecting that, and can be so quick to assume that's the problem that they may not actually be much help if the issue is something else.

There are times when I could post that I don't want to mention x or y to DH because he's got enough on his plate - but it's hard to get across that it would be my own decision as a self-confident person to deal with it myself, rather than living in fear!

Yes, I find it horribly depressing, which is why I don't read many of the relationships threads.

I remember starting a thread ages ago under a different name about women being "emotion keepers" - that is, being responsible for other people's (usually men's) feelings. A lot of people were really unhappy with the idea and wouldn't accept it at all as an idea.

Yep - depressing as hell.

As are the posts where some chugnut is idle, rude, selfish and a general shit but the op is under the impression that that is normal.
Worse, when people say 'er no, why are you with him?' they reply
'Because I love him'

Hak, I bet you didn't post that thread on the FWR board.

treacle - yes to this! One of the things that growing up with my dad taught me was to never ever say something personally insulting in a row. Even if you're angry and shouting, never make it personal. He used to call me a bitch and a cow and a waste of space etc and even when you know it's just the anger or the drink talking, it's hard to erase the words from your head later.

Mum, that's it exactly! Even though I was fed up with him when I started the thread, I felt very protective of him after reading some replies, because a small minority of posters assumed he was either abusive or useless, and neither of those things are remotely true. But I could see why people might think that after reading lots of threads on here.

I grew up in a household like that (Dad was an alcoholic abusive waste of space indoors, but well loved charismatic charmer for everyone else) and I was determined that my DC would never have that stomach churning that another poster described. DH and I disagree sometimes, but we don't row and shout and we don't take it out on the DC. I have a friend who has that kind of relationship - her DH isn't a bad person, he's just the type that takes his bad moods out on everyone else and brings the atmosphere down. When things are good, it's passionate and wonderful and exciting but when they're bad, it's awful. She loves the passion and the highs so puts up with the lows. I'd rather eat broken glass than live in such an emotionally unstable situation, but I guess that's because my background is so much more dysfunctional - I'd rather be boring and content.

hakluyt Was your thread suggesting that they ought to be the emotion keepers, ie that it was their natural role in life as females?

Or that they often took on that role despite the fact that it was harmful to their own health and happiness, because of growing up in a social context that made them feel it was expected of them?

I 'accept' it as an idea if you mean that it's something women do. I don't accept it's something that women ought to do, or that it is their fundamental responsibility.

Deeply depressing. If you are "afraid" of the consequences, (for you or your children) of your partner being upset, that is pretty much the definition of abuse. hak the whole emotion-keepers thing is so well-known I am amazed people didn't immediately recognise it. Start the same thread in the blue-stocking pub thread, and see what happens!

The phrase that gets to me is 'but he's a really good father' - when usually the OP means he takes the kids out for a hour at the weekend, does bugger all around the house, never looks after the kids alone and pleases himself more often than not.

I used to be married to one of 'those'. People would coo over him, out with the kids. They didn't realise he was out for an hour while I did the shopping or caught up with cleaning and then he buggered off to the pub for the rest of the day.

Of course most of the posts are about women tiptoeing around men. Most of the posters here are women.
There's nothing to say it's not just as prevalent the other way round.
Most relationships go through bad times.

Collaborate
Of course most of the posts are about women tiptoeing around men. Most of the posters here are women

True, but when people have referred to what they grew up with, it is their mothers, not their fathers, who were "on egg shells".