if I don't tell exP about ds' hospital appointment until afterwards?

[drasticpark]

I really don't want exP to attend. So bored and fed up with his continued petty behaviour. I can't be bothered to smile sweetly and pretend it's water off a duck's back. It hurts when someone is rude and hostile and I don't see why I should invite him to have this opportunity to display more bad behaviour in front of ds.

I was notified by telephone that ds has an cardiac appointment on Monday. I was all set to tell exP the details but when he dropped ds off the next morning he stood on the path and threw his shin pads through the front door - not in temper, just in a sort of casual "I don't care about your property" kind of way. Really disrespectful. He didn't speak; he never does. Not even hello. This was in front of ds and is typical of his attitude. I decided then and there not to tell him about the appointment.

Last year, ds had major surgery to remove a tumour from his neck. ExP basked in the sympathy of having a son who had such a serious sounding condition (the tumour was benign) but didn't do one thing to help him or me practically. He scowls at me, never replies if I say hello and if he absolutely has to speak he looks away and barks at me. All in front of ds. Occasionally we would leave the hospital together after appointments and he would deliberately walk too fast for me to keep up or lag 10 paces behind. Ds would then have to choose who to walk with. See, told you it was petty.

Ds is now being investigated for possible cardiac problems. Might be nothing but could be part of a wider diagnosis with significant consequences. As a parent I believe exP should be given the opportunity to attend. But as a human being I think I should have the right to avoid putting myself in a situation where I am going to be subjected to his bad behaviour. Ive got feelings and it hurts. Ds (age13) says he doesn't mind whether his dad goes or not.

If I tell exP he's not welcome because he's so rude he'll tell me I'm being deliberately awkward and imagining it.

This isn't about YOU, it's about the care of your DS

Exactly. Which is why OP's concern seems to be that the last thing her DS would need is to a. spend the time during a stressful appointment also being affected by his dad's hostility to his mum and b. potentially have a less useful appointment, as instead of his mum being able to concentrate on speaking to the doctors and getting the maximum information, she's going to end up fielding petty behaviour and trying to manage the dad's hostility and unhelpfulness.

If my child was facing this level of potential health concern, my one and only consideration would be helping him as much and as effectively as possible. And if the other parent being there was going to hamper that in any way, especially if it were through deliberate, petty nastiness, I would have no hesitation in cutting them out entirely. Too important a time for anything but 100% working together to ensure my child got the best care. You can't put your pettiness aside to ensure that? Then fuck off.

He might be a PITA but he is your sons dad, does your son want him there because the bottom line is its about him and neither of you two.

You both need to talk about it beforehand and agree how you are going to behave if your son wants you both there.

By not telling him when it is you are lowering yourself to his standards (and below IMHO) do you really want to be that person?

He tells me I am imagining his bad behaviour. I've offered many olive branches. He refuses to engage. He will literally turn his back on me if I speak. I have no idea why he refuses to apply for PR. I have offered to sign whatever needs to be signed.

We split because he was having an affair. He still tells everyone that I threw him out. My doing, not his. I can only guess that he is livid that I discovered his double life and spoiled it for him. I really don't know. He doesn't speak to me. I have moved on, rebuilt my life and am happy. Perhaps he resents me for this. I don't know. But he is still very angry about something. I'm not angry at all. But I don't think I should have to tolerate his rudeness.

Of course he is angry with you, sounds like he is a knob who has made some terrible decisions but surely you can rise above this for the sake of this important appointment if your son wants him there?

I have asked my son. I explained I had to go as the letter states that someone with PR must attend so it was just whether he wanted his dad to attend aswell. He said he'd think about it. He's very uncomfortable about his dad's behaviour but more in a defensive way. For example, he rushes to have everything ready and hovers by the front door so that his dad doesn't have to get out of the car when he collects him. He gets visibly anxious. He said he doesn't mind whether his dad goes or not = don't ask me to choose, mum. Totally reasonable. And I won't make him choose. I will.

I would be prepared to take turns in attending appointments but exP would not give any information if it was his turn. As I say, he literally refuses to engage by turning his back on me, refusing to wind the car window down, pretending to speak on his mobile, turning the radio up etc. I've given up on that one.

If he doesn't have pr then why should he be there?

OP - you have PR. You go to the appointment.
It needs to be as calm as possible and you need to be able to converse with the doctor.
Update your ex after the event.
In fact I would keep the update as brief as possible.
If he wants to discuss the detail he can approach you in a sensible manner.

And I did rise above it last year for many months while ds was investigated for those tumour. I was bright, breezy, polite, offered lifts, offered to get a drink if I was getting one for myself etc. If you offered to get someone a drink and they scowled at you, made no reply then stalked off only to retur with a big fuck-off drink and nosh would you keep offering? I can't face all that shit again. I'd rather do it on my own.

No don't tell him. His behaviour after the last appointment especially on the way to the car park, shows that he doesn't give a shit about his poor son.

Don't give him an opportunity to make your son more anxious than necessary after the next appointment.

What an utter twat.

If he hasn't got PR he can't go on his own can he?

If the issue is how your son feels and you are protecting him then its a no brainer (although I wonder whether the issue for ds is more about how you both are when you are together rather than just your ex's behaviour. May well not be but its worth thinking about in that he isn't avoiding his dad but avoiding situations where you are both together) - from your OP your thinking seemed to be purely related to how fed up you are with the mans rude behaviour.

But then I don't know you or your family, I just wonder if there is another perspective here.

I know it's about ds, not me or exP but ds doesn't realise the implications of potential cardiac investigations as he is asymptomatic. I have played it down; just a check up, don't worry etc. and he's not worried. Neither am I particularly. He is presently fit and well. I'm a nurse with cardiac ITU experience (long time ago, mind) so I know a sick cardiac patient when I see one. And ds is not ill. He may have a syndrome that may present with cardiac problems in his 20s. He might be as fit as a fiddle. This is the first appointment to see if there is a diagnosis to be made. Likely to be a few more before the outcome is clear.
What I'm trying to say is that ds really doesn't mind whether his dad comes or not. And he's not unduly anxious about the appointment.

He has chosen to not want PR?

Then there is no discussion to be had. He clearly has a view of his own duties and the expectations for him which come with fatherhood, and as PR isn't one of them, then there is absolutely no moral reason why you should even consider putting his potential 'preference' above what you - the ONLY person prepared to acknowledge and prioritise your PR for your son - think is best practice.

You are the only person with PR. Until such time as your Ex decides that he should step up and take on the same responsibility, then he has no grounds to complain if what you consider to be best practice is not what he would want.

He is sounding less and less of a positive contributor with every post. As I've said upthread, the priority here is your DS's health and getting the best out of this appointment.

I would say to your DS - 'No, it's not appropriate that you choose unless you specifically want your Dad to be there, in which case that would be fine. But there is no need for more than one parent to be at this appointment and therefore I will decide now that I'll take you alone, as it will be much easier for the doctors to pass the information to one person rather than have two asking questions, etc. The important thing is that the doctors have as much peace and quiet to do their examinations, etc. as possible. Of course I will make sure that your Dad has all the information passed to him as soon as possible.'

Your son can read between the lines there, and I think by the sound of how anxious he is at the dynamic, he will be grateful.

To your EX:

'You should have been there? You should have been told? No, I'm afraid until the day you decide that you are prepared to have PR and acknowledge your responsibilities instead of just wanting to talk about your rights, those decisions remain mine and mine alone. And my decision was that your attitude towards me was the last thing needed at such an important appointment. I don't need to explain anything more than that to you.'

Indeed I am totally fed up with this man's rude behaviour. Who wouldn't be? Including ds, although he never mentions it. But he is definitely aware of it. Why should he be subjected to it? He probably doesn't feel able to say he doesn't want his dad to come. If he did, he would have already told him. And he hasn't.

Oh and by the way, you're doing all the right things.

You've moved on, and your more mature behaviour must really get to him - being polite, offering drinks etc. - it's the behaviour of someone who is happy, and doesn't care enough about the ex to be petty.

It must INFURIATE him. Especially as his sour grapes attitude is more than a small indication that perhaps his choices haven't left him sitting as pretty as he thought they would. Shame.

I have asked my ex to get PR on a number of occasions including when we were still together. He says yes but then does nothing. I can't do it for him. I even got my solicitor to advise him on my behalf. I think because I have suggested it he feels he's taking my advice and I've scored a point in the game that he's invented and I refuse to play. He can attend appointments without me but would not be able to give consent if required so it would potentially slow the process down.

Gosh he sounds like a vindictive arsehole.

I think when people say things like 'well you just have to work together now' they mean it really nicely and think that if you just disengage snd behave super polite and like a hrien up, he'll do it too.

I suspect they've never experienced someone who simply won't behave like a reasonable human being, and there's nothing you can do to make him put his son above his hatred of you.

I would have done the appointment without him and caught him up straight away afterwards.

However, I really think you now can't do that as you've involved your son in the decision. Sorry but please don't do that to him again, it's not fair on him. I can understand why you did, but it put Ds in an utterly unwanted position of power and forces him to choose between parents who he loves very much and is already stuck in a horrible war between them. Not your fault that h behaves like this, but it still has an effect.

It's a pity your son has to be exposed to it, but also, that he's being involved in decisions about it. The only thing I can think of to mitigate that is sitting down with him and telling him that you are not making him choose between you, and that if he comes, and behaves badly, that you have made your peace with that, and that it's absolutely ok and understandable that he'd want his dad there at this time.

Totally agree your calm polite and even somewhat friendly demeanour must really irritate him.

You've shown him that he can't get under your skin.

When someone behaves like he is, they want the other person to notice, to feel wounded or upset, not to brush it off.

You've shown him so far that his behaviour isn't on your radar (even if it winds you up something rotten).

I totally agree Miscellaneous. I am going to take control now and say to ds as Castlemilk advised above:

I would say to your DS - 'No, it's not appropriate that you choose unless you specifically want your Dad to be there, in which case that would be fine. But there is no need for more than one parent to be at this appointment and therefore I will decide now that I'll take you alone, as it will be much easier for the doctors to pass the information to one person rather than have two asking questions, etc. The important thing is that the doctors have as much peace and quiet to do their examinations, etc. as possible. Of course I will make sure that your Dad has all the information passed to him as soon as possible.'

I think that will take the pressure off ds. And I don't think it's too late to say that to him today.

Clean, I'm more fed up of it rather than feeling wound up. I just think, oh no not this again, how boring. Why can't he just pretend to be polite for the sake of ds? But I realise that he hasn't got that within him for whatever reason. So I have to manage my own reaction.

As a hcp, I find that the number of adults attending hospital appointments with dc is increasing. It is getting to the point where huge extended families rock up and all want to ask Qs. It can be utterly frustrating as the child gets swept aside by all the clammering adults. From my perspective, especially with teenagers, it is much easier to see them with one supportive adult who has PR. You can focus so much more easily on the child. You know your ex can't consent to any investigations without PR which means you take your son alone or he has to go with you.

I personally would not tell him and you go with your ds. Hospitals are bad enough places already without the extra stress your ex presence seems to add.

As an aside, my ds has had so many hospital appointments in his life. There is absolutely no way that dh and I would have both been able to attend them all. Maybe this clouds my judgement a bit.

Thank you to everyone who has advised.
Ds comes first. It's not in his interests to have an angry parent at the appointment. I shall tell exP about it afterwards.

Forgot to say - hope that your ds doesn't have any cardiac problems, op.

Hi,

I have a disabled daughter and a complete arse of an ex husband who generally likes to make life as difficult as possible.

What he likes to do is bring the OW to very serious medical appointments....despite polite requests not to have her in there. ( I now have a letter in the front of dd's file and she's not allowed in) he is extremely rude and offhand and like you, it feels immense to be coping with him behaving like a twat as well as worrying about my dd as well!!! Sigh

The only way I can deal with it now, is to arrange for a copy of the appointment letter to go out to him each time, so I don't have to tell him. If he comes, and he often doesn't bother...I just don't speak to him and let him talk to dd instead. If I did have to speak to him, I'm incredibly polite.

If he doesn't turn up, he always gets the write up of the appointment letter so I don't have to phone him and tell him.

It is bollocks, but he is her dad, and if I don't tell him he then gets very irate and tells anyone that will listen I didn't invite him....and actually that ends up making me look like an idiot, unless I go into a lengthy explanation why....which usually makes me look like the angry ex wife. ( which I'm not, apart from being angry about how he treats the kids! )

Xxx

Good decision.

The man is a selfish wanker and doesn't 'deserve' to be there to humiliate you and upset your DS. He's had ample opportunities to act like a decent human being, he's abused every single one of them. He's lost any right to be there.