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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To think that mobility scooters are bloody dangerous and there should be more regulation of their use?

786 replies

JellyDiamond · 22/09/2014 12:14

I've just nearly run over a man on a disability scooter. I was driving along at 30mph, when he pulled off the kerb right in front of me. He didn't look anyway but when he realised I was coming towards him he didn't seem to know how to stop it and carried on. Had I been going any faster I would have hit him, had another car been behind me they'd have crashed into me...

I appreciate elderly and disabled people need to get about, but many of them don't seem to know how to use these scooters. There's an old chap near me who uses and one and drives along in the middle of the road, holding up traffic and refusing to pull over to let anyone pass. I've nearly been run over myself by them on pavements, in shops, in supermarkets and I've heard of people who have actually been bit and injured by them.

Surely there should be some kind of course and test for users before allowing them lose on the public? Maybe even an assessment to see who actually needs them rather than just giving them out willy billy to any OAP over the age of 70 wants one?

OP posts:
IcaMorgan · 22/09/2014 14:54

If a scooter or powered wheelchair is from Motatbility then it will be insured automatically so some are insured.

Peppa87 · 22/09/2014 14:54

I do think a safety test/training course of some description should be compulsory before being allowed to drive motorised equipment.

I have seen people driving them in the wrong direction on roads, not looking when crossing roads, also somebody once whizzed around a corner on the pavement without slowing to check for walkers and gave my baby a fright by bumping into her pram.

Car and motorcycle users have to prove they are capable of driving their vehicle safely, and i feel using this sort of equipment should come with suitable training and a perhaps a test.

Some people will take to it very quickly, others may struggle to get the hang of it and need a little help.

Having said that, many disabled and elderly people rely on motorised equipment to lead a normal and independent life as possible and should be given adequate support to get what they need as quickly as possible and use it safely.

lampygirl · 22/09/2014 14:54

This thread isnt about 'disabled people' it is about 'mobility scooter users' behaving inappropriately. I (young, and able bodied) have, on occasions, had to drive my grandfather's mobility scooter. To get it home from hospital etc, as my nan sometimes uses it if she's having a hard time getting about. If I ran someone down on the street, I would just as well be one of the anecdotes on here, despite having no disability. It is to do with the vehicle and the users ability to control it, not the reasons behind why they are using one in the first place.

The problem is, they are heavy and can do a lot of damage if a mistake is made. I can drive my car at 5mph, but it weighs 2 tons, and would do a hell of a lot of damage to whatever I hit, a scooter will do less, but it weighs more than a pedestrian and more than a pram, so at the same speed it would do more damage than those due to the greater force applied. This is science, not 'picking on the disabled'.

We tried to disuade my grandad from getting one, but he's bloody minded. In the end, we settled on him having one because we were at the same time forcing him to give up his car (after crashing it into his own garage for the third time).

As a minimum i'd like to see purchases involve a 30 min 'familiarisation' type session including stopping/steering/doing a few courses of cones that involve looking around you. Insurance should be compulsory.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 22/09/2014 14:56

territt
I take it you are insured against walking into someone and breaking their ankle? (I am assuming you can walk of course).

Handsoff7 · 22/09/2014 14:57

YABVU

Mobility scooters are a lifeline for people with mobility issues and accidents are vanishingly rare.

The data below shows injuries/deaths to pedestrians
www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/239712/ras10012.xls

Scooters, 8 serious injuries and no deaths in 2 years.

Cyclists (similarly unregulated), 196 serious injuries, 4 deaths.

Cars ~7000 serious injuries, 450 deaths.

I can easily run at 8 mph pushing my pram and sometimes do. I don't think I should have to take a test for that.

Insurance / testing etc would e very expensive and lots of old people wouldn't bother and would be stuck in the house.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 22/09/2014 15:02

Well lampy if there was compulsory training and insurance, you wouldn't be allowed to drive it home from the hospital would you? Or do you think only disabled people should have to have training?

And frankly, by colluding with your Grandad in having a scooter if you think he is incapable, you are doing a great disservice to those of us who drive our scooters responsibly.

SoonToBeSix · 22/09/2014 15:06

Terriet I have used my scooter for five years I have never come close to injuring someone. I use common sense and I am very careful and observant.

londonrach · 22/09/2014 15:06

Yanbu. Often the user isnt well enough to use them. Remember dm friend who was held against the garage for 30 mins due to her fil unable to stop the scooter. His parkinsons might he wasnt able to turn it off and dm friend couldnt help as she was pinned against the garage. It took a passerby to come to their rescue. It was the last time he used the scooter as he was shocked too. Horrible for all concerned.

bauhausfan · 22/09/2014 15:08

We were on a traffic island in the middle of a busy road when an old lady (about 80) came up behind us, didn't break and nearly pushed me son in front of the traffic. The only thing that saved him was that the side of her scooter crashed into a railing propped against the main railing and knocked it on top of her. I had to pull it off her. She said she, 'Couldn't use the brakes' - didn't even notice/apologise that she had nearly killed my 8 year old and didn't thank me for having to leave my kids to rescue her from under an iron railing. She just tootled off merrily. Grr!

She later followed us down the road and my kids were terrified of her. I think mobility scooters are great but people who are not competent should not be allowed to drive them. My son was literally a hair's breadth from being shoved under fast moving traffic and it was deeply upsetting.

TheCraicDealer · 22/09/2014 15:09

Handsoff, if you look at that data, the total number of injuries resulting from mobility scooters (both severe and slight) increased from 5 in 2011 to 21 in 2012. That's a pretty rapid rate of increase. We're looking at data from two years ago now, so not that reflective of the current position.

I would also question what degree an injury is required to be before it's considered to be severe.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 22/09/2014 15:11

Wow handsoff. Looking at your statistics would suggest that every single person injured by a scooter has posted their experiences on this thread. Nice to see some proper figures.

TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy · 22/09/2014 15:14

I think some are confused on how mobility scooters actually work. The vast majority don't have brakes (I've never seen one with brakes), you push to go forwards, stop pushing when you need to stop, almost always with ones hands. This makes them safe for many people who could not get a drivers' license (such as those with certain types of epilepsy or cannot reliably control their legs). It also means they tend to roll forward or back when they stop, meaning it is very difficult to stop instantly if someone steps directly in front of us. This causes a lot of accidents because people presume we can hit the brakes like a car, we can't, they are not designed like a car, they are designed like electric wheelchairs. They are also used by a wide range of people - I first used one in my early twenties.

Shop mobility do require users to take a test to rent them and they tend to be well labelled so if you have a complaint about one of those, you can make a complaint with them and they might require a retest. They often have numbers on the front or back as well as a sign saying they are shop mobility and usually around here who donated them. There are laws about which can be used on pavements and which on roads as has been mentioned and you can get police or security (in shops) to stop someone driving one unsafely just as you can with anyone else. And mobility scooter users have been sued for dangerous usage so it's not like we're all untouchable by the law just because we're disabled.

Also, a lot of mobility scooters are sold through the second hand market for those buying their own. I own two and both were given to us by my in-laws when they upgraded. I guess lessons could be included for those who get it through their DLA and mobility schemes, but for the vast majority it's just like buying any other disability or mobility device.

I've seen mobility scooter accidents. I've seen one malfunction badly. Much like anything else they have risks that need to be balanced. But I've also had the experiences of being attacked while on one, I had to protect my toddler daughter who was riding with me from being attacked, I've had people destroy the wheels (which are incredibly expensive), I've had people screaming in my and my children faces for using one, I've had people literally try to remove me from my mobility scooter. And even then I like many others prefer them electric wheelchairs (which are far easier for other people to tip over from my own experiences). I know people like to think we have a chip on our shoulders, but all this talk of insurance seemed to be focused on everyone but the people needing to use them. As the people who face ableism every day and know these devices, aren't we the ones best suited to decide what is ableism and what these devices need to be safe and useful? Cause from these comments I can't use them on the pavement, I can't use them on the road, I can't use them without a license to drive a car even when they are designed fundamentally differently, I need to hit the brakes they don't have faster, and we need to not be insulted for the sake of it when people want to deny us all mobility.

I mean, I saw a pedestrian clock a guy on a bike this week. Almost sent him into oncoming traffic, could have killed him. Should pedestrians need a license? Do pedestrians need third party insurance? Would that have changed anything about that situation? Cause these things are our feet and people want to cut us off from them rather than say deal with the laws that are already in place regarding their usage that are openly available for everyone.

Charitybag · 22/09/2014 15:19

I live just off a busy shopping area and there's an elderly man that drives around the shops on his mobility scooter with his very scruffy little dog sitting between his feet. I have also seen him on foot attempting to drag the very reluctant dog along the street on its arse.

I really do wonder if the scooter is more for the dogs benefit.

Not very helpful but makes me laugh every time I see them.

GarlicSeptimus · 22/09/2014 15:20

I'm really annoyed with all the yes-butters saying this thread isn't disablist!

Scooters are for disabled people to have some mobility.
Many of those will have lost their driving license due to disabilities.
Due to disabilities, some of those will have impaired judgement.

Now, to you, this might mean disabled people shouldn't drive scooters if they have impaired judgement.
To me, it means they need normally-able people to make concessions for them: like exercising particular care around them.
Expecting the disabled to be convenient for everyone else is disablist.

I will also point out that children have impaired judgement, compared to adults.
Because of this, they often use thoroughfares inappropriately.
So please ask yourselves whether you'd rant about children being banned in public until they have passed a proficiency test, wear a license number and have third-party insurance.
Because that argument is exactly the same.
Angry

Plus, the stats posted by Handsoff. By this thread's logic, we should tax & license bicycle users - and ban car drivers altogether, as they cause the most injury despite being licensed, taxed & insured.

squoosh · 22/09/2014 15:24

There's a woman near me who has a roof on hers, to shelter her, her three Yorkshire terriers and her array of Celtic FC baubles.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 22/09/2014 15:28

TheSpork touches on a relevant point that mobility scooters are actually pretty badly designed, both for users and people who get bumped into. It is strange because there must be a massive market now for something a lot better.

GarlicSeptimus · 22/09/2014 15:28

(i should have written "people with disabilities" but my own disabilities are affecting my typing today)

TinklyLittleLaugh · 22/09/2014 15:29

Aargh scootering, not scoot tearing Grin

GarlicSeptimus · 22/09/2014 15:31

Heh, scoot tearing was perfect!

TinklyLittleLaugh · 22/09/2014 15:34

It's a moot point Garlic depending on whether you adhere to the medical or the social model of disability.Wink

I certainly am a person with physical difficulties but it is largely society's response to my disability that makes me a disabled person.

JellyDiamond · 22/09/2014 15:45

So basically disabled people should be allowed to do whatever they like, and they shouldn't have to modify their behaviour to avoid causing injury to others or causing damage to other peoples property? But at the same time disabled people then expect able bodied to modify their behaviour to allow them to do this?

Entitled or what?!

No one is saying scooters should be banned.

No one is saying that the disabled or the elder should stay at home all day.

What we want is for a little bit of common sense to used. Examples of incidents have been provided as evidence by other posters proving they are dangerous. If you could live yourself for leaving someone seriously injured by your actions then fair enough, personally I couldn't.

OP posts:
GarlicSeptimus · 22/09/2014 15:48

disabled people expect able bodied to modify their behaviour

Yes!

The rest of your post is ignorant bollocks. You ARE saying that the disabled or the elderly should stay at home all day, unless they're sufficiently able that they don't inconvenience you.

GarlicSeptimus · 22/09/2014 15:50

As a driver, you're supposed to be aware of potential hazards around you. Scooter drivers are such, just like children on the footpath and badly parked cars.

GarlicSeptimus · 22/09/2014 15:52

And cyclists & motocyclist ... and little old folks on walkers ... and overstressed parents with toddlers ... commercial vehicles unloading ...

Ban the lot of 'em so you don't have to think about them?

Hmm
JellyDiamond · 22/09/2014 15:53

Why should we modify our behaviour to accommodate people who are too incompetent and selfish to operate a dangerous vehicle properly?

Or do you just think that the world revolves around you?

OP posts: