To think that mobility scooters are bloody dangerous and there should be more regulation of their use?

[JellyDiamond]

I've just nearly run over a man on a disability scooter. I was driving along at 30mph, when he pulled off the kerb right in front of me. He didn't look anyway but when he realised I was coming towards him he didn't seem to know how to stop it and carried on. Had I been going any faster I would have hit him, had another car been behind me they'd have crashed into me...

I appreciate elderly and disabled people need to get about, but many of them don't seem to know how to use these scooters. There's an old chap near me who uses and one and drives along in the middle of the road, holding up traffic and refusing to pull over to let anyone pass. I've nearly been run over myself by them on pavements, in shops, in supermarkets and I've heard of people who have actually been bit and injured by them.

Surely there should be some kind of course and test for users before allowing them lose on the public? Maybe even an assessment to see who actually needs them rather than just giving them out willy billy to any OAP over the age of 70 wants one?

A power chair doesn't have a wheel/wheels at the front and a metal casing. If one hits you it will be the person's knees that hit you. If a scooter hits you it's the metal casing - much more likely to cause injury, I'd have thought.

happy

Power chairs are a durable outdoor/indoor wheelchair that can be operated without the need of someone else.

sunna

A lot of power chairs do have wheels at the front (that are forward of the person) to enable easy movement outside.

But not metal casings?

The only one I've seen was just like an ordinary wheel chair but with a motor and a control on one armrest.

Some have a bar at the bottom again as a stabiliser and to mount curbs. You can get basic ones with just a control on the arm but they are only really good for indoor use.
Outdoor chairs are more robust so by nature bigger and have pretty heavy casings and wheels to enable durability.

And happy I apologise for the repeated questioning earlier but I felt frustrated that people weren't discussing the issue but getting entrenched into personal digs.

Would people feel as comfortable accusing people of choosing to use them and that they shouldn't be in certain places because of the risk of people being run over?

I really haven't seen this happen. This thread has been about people who can't use mobility scooters safely, not about banning scooters altogether from anywhere.

archery several people have spoken of banning them earlier on in the thread and that people were 'choosing' to use them.

I guess my point is that mobility scooters seem to have an image of 'the fat and feckless' rather than what they are, which is a mobility aid.

I think that people are (generally) kinder and more excepting of wheelchair users because they see the people using them as disabled, so would be more patient.

sunna
Speaking from experience, it won't be the persons knees that hits you. It will more likely to be the footrest, straight in the shins and with a hell of a lot of weight behind it.

Accepting not excepting!

Surely a good solution would be to rethink a standard design for scooters so that they are overall more user friendly and intuitive? With pressure operated controls, so if the operator falls off or is incapacitated, it stops automatically. Also maybe an emergency stop button, similar to those you see on some treadmills?

Maintenance of scooters could also be standardised, with regular checks to ensure the battery, steering and brakes are in full working order.

Obviously this wouldn't guarantee that there would be no danger from scooters, but if they are easier and to control, it can only result in a better outcome for everyone.

seeking They do stop automatically the motion stops as soon as you take your hand off the 'throttle'

Maybe they should be regulated as well then, Salemonbut I don't think they move as fast as the scooters, do they?

Yes they do up to 6mph.

Where do we draw the line on what disabled people can and can not use outdoors?
If you have multiple disabilities should you be limited to a life of zero independence always pushed by others because you are unable to pass a test?

Fair enough - I have no personal experience with scooters, so am thinking about it from a purely engineering point of view. Is this a standardised design for all scooters?

It just seems to me that regular checks on things such as mechanics and tyres would improve the safety for both the user and those around them.

seeking

All the scooters I've used are like this.

I do have mine serviced but it's another cost to me because I'm disabled.

If you have multiple disabilities should you be limited to a life of zero independence always pushed by others because you are unable to pass a test?

If your independence is at the cost of other people's safety - not some theoretical, potential safety, but the real and likely risk of injury and even death to bystanders - then yes.

It's the old "your right to throw your fist ends at the tip of my nose" argument. Nobody has the right to act recklessly in a way that is very likely to cause serious injury to other people.

And yes, there is always the risk of accidents anyway, and no life is risk-free. But there is a difference between someone who has reasonable control of a vehicle and someone who - as a poster suggested upthread should be totes OK - driving while suffering from temper issues due to dementia, or impaired judgement, or someone who has restricted sight, or someone who is simply too physically frail to handle the controls properly.

(And inB4 "cyclists and cars" - well, I'd be fine with greater regulation on cars, and better training for cyclists.)

Mamuka, I took so long to reply as I am very busy, sorry.

I don’t have think anyone “chooses” to use any mobility vehicle. If people use them, it’s because their mobility is limited, often severely. No one who can walk any distance is going to fork out all that money for something they don’t need. That to me is obvious. I most certainly don’t see mobility scooters as for the “'the fat and feckless”. My neighbor is neither. He is just old and infirm (and unsafe on his). No one single person I know who uses them does it because they are fat or feckless. Every single person I know who uses one (and that may include my disabled husband soon) is because their mobility is limited, either through old age and/or disability. Having said all that. I still think they should be regulated as the numbers of them (mobility scooters) involved in accidents is very high, not just minor accidents either. I have been very busy tonight so haven’t had a lot of time to read up on the power chairs things, but what I did see were very heavy, as in 400 plus pounds some of them, with the capacity to carry very large drivers too. These power chairs have higher combined weight possibilities than even the very heavy, top of the range mobility scooter my neighbor has. They had metal bits that stuck out at the front at ankle to shin level. And can easily travel at 6mph. I too think these should be regulated as they have massive potential for injury in the hands of someone like my neighbor (1000lbs hitting your shins at 6mph doesn’t bear thinking about). I am fine with anyone driving them, providing that someone isn’t as visually impaired (coupled with poor reflexes, coordination and concentration) as someone like my neighbor. They are brilliant things for people who can operate them safely. My only issue is with people who can’t operate them safely. And my concern is as much for the drivers own safety as for the public in general. Drivers of mobility vehicles have also been killed and seriously injured in their own vehicles.

sorry too if I have missed anything asked, but it’s pretty hectic here right now.

If you have multiple disabilities should you be limited to a life of zero independence always pushed by others because you are unable to pass a test?

of course not, as long as you can safely operate a mobility vehicle without being a risk to yourself or other members of the public.

Well if the test is "can you safely operate this vehicle? Y/N", then I'm sticking to my "yes".

sunna probably not. The one my daughter was using was set at the minimum speed. I honestly don't know what sort of speed they do at maximum.
I think anything that is motor powered and heavy has the potential to do damage if the operator isn't capable of controlling it, and even if they are then accidents can still happen when driven in a busy area with pedestrians. They can't possibly be only used on roads as you need to be able to access shops etc with them or it defeats the object.
I'm not sure what the answer would be as a test wouldn't be effective if the users coordination, eyesight etc declines over time and they fail to recognise this, or are, understandably, reluctant to admit it as it would take away their independance. I also think it would be unfair to make someone have re test every year when users of other vehicles don't have to but I do think users have a duty to be realistic in their capabilities and consider the safety of others.
Some posters seem to have really taken this thread personally and all anybody is saying as far as i can see is that scooters can be dangerous in the wrong hands and everybody has a right to expect to go about their business in relative safety, disabled or not with some consideration from others.

I think your last paragraph sums it up perfectly, salemon

life

Not everyone has been measured in their responses.
There has been a generalisation of 'them' - that all scooter users are the same.
People saying that people can 'choose' whether they use a scooter or not.
People saying that if people exercised more (i.e. didn't use their scooters) they'd be less fat!

These things aren't about the safety of scooters.

Yanbu, someone was actually killed by one last year in our town while standing on a pavement at a bus stop.

Insurance should absolutely be compulsory to use them, as the risk, and therefore liability is potentially huge. I can't believe it isn't already.

sorry. my husband has just pointed out the stupidity of my last reply. I am doing too many things at once

let me try again

If you have multiple disabilities should you be limited to a life of zero independence always pushed by others because you are unable to pass a test?

of course not, as long as you can safely operate a mobility vehicle without being a risk to yourself or other members of the public, and can demonstrate that level of safe operation by passing a simple test. if you are unable to pass that test (like the very simple one the bbc filmed with the local authority somewhere in yorkshire), then correct me if I am wrong, but it must be because you can't operate one safely. In which case, I am sorry, but no person with very poor eyesight (and a host of other things that affect saftey) should be in control of a vehicle that I now know can weight up to 1000lbs with the driver/vehicle combined, that travels at 6+mph, often on pavements and pedestrian only areas.

I don't agree with your point about choice. It is not compulsory to use a scooter if you are disabled. If you choose to use a potentially dangerous piece of equiptment when you know its realistically beyond your capabilities then that is selfish, irresponsible and totally unacceptable no matter what.
People are going to be bitter if they have experienced horrific injuries and 'them' doesn't always refer to the user, it can easily be a reference to scooter itself.

Having followed the thread I don't think the 'fat' label has been a theme. In fact you using 'people ' in that sentence has just devalued the point you made about generalisation.