To think that mobility scooters are bloody dangerous and there should be more regulation of their use?

[JellyDiamond]

I've just nearly run over a man on a disability scooter. I was driving along at 30mph, when he pulled off the kerb right in front of me. He didn't look anyway but when he realised I was coming towards him he didn't seem to know how to stop it and carried on. Had I been going any faster I would have hit him, had another car been behind me they'd have crashed into me...

I appreciate elderly and disabled people need to get about, but many of them don't seem to know how to use these scooters. There's an old chap near me who uses and one and drives along in the middle of the road, holding up traffic and refusing to pull over to let anyone pass. I've nearly been run over myself by them on pavements, in shops, in supermarkets and I've heard of people who have actually been bit and injured by them.

Surely there should be some kind of course and test for users before allowing them lose on the public? Maybe even an assessment to see who actually needs them rather than just giving them out willy billy to any OAP over the age of 70 wants one?

But baby buggies don't travel at 4mph Garlic.

Maybe we should all be more aware of these scooters, and be a bit more tolerant.

Well said Brave.

Should people who don't get sickness enchanting pay not have out of work sick insurance.

Do gets ssp so we have insurance to cover this.

Should people who don't get sickness enchanting pay not have out of work sick insurance.

Do gets ssp so we have insurance to cover this.

Why do these threads get so polarised?

If people are misusing mobility scooters and being a danger, criticise away. No one actually calls you disablist for complaining about that. Its going on to make outraged generalisations that many of us object to.

Before you ask for sweeping regulations, bans, what have you, think about what a lifeline they are to so many people, most of whom are vulnerable, and of the whole sledgehammer to crack a nut aspect of what you're asking for.

Some of the arguments on here would justify banning cars, on the grounds that lots of drivers are dangerous, incompetent, reckless, unskilled, mean or all of the above, but no one ever calls for cars to be banned.

But I haven't read 1 post on the whole 10 pages of this thread that said mobility scooters should be banned.

I have said they should be banned. (Don 't think anyone else has either) That would be ridiculous. All I'm saying is that (like cars) there should be some kind of test to ensure the person is capable of operating what is a pretty hefty piece of machinery safely. I don't think that's unreasonable.

haven't said, not have

Nope, no one has said they should be banned altogether ChildrenOfTheDamned. Just those posters who are looking for any old excuse to be offended making that assumption.

Should people who don't get sickness enchanting pay not have out of work sick insurance.

Oh, the naivety

I get ESA (long-term sick benefit) of £101 a week, less a few deductions.

I did, indeed, have private insurance up to my neck! Top-level private health insurance, mortgage & credit insurance, income replacement insurance, you name it. Right smug bastard, I was. Until I discovered they all refuse to pay out after 12-24 months (they varied.) They have clauses to cover that, which you didn't realise covered that until you ask them to deliver what they paid for.

Most people don't even earn enough to pay those kinds of premiums. People with lifelong disabilities may never have earned anything at all.

Luckily, I was also paying into a NATIONAL insurance scheme, which funds my benefits. Although not to the level that they promised when I joined it, and promised while I continued to pay increasing premiums.

Should also add the comparison being made with babies buggies and prams is utterly ludicrous as prams and buggies aren't motorised and don't weigh several tons!

Firstly, I’ll refer back to Handsoff’s stats which keep being discussed. The number of injuries caused to pedestrians by scooters have only been recorded since 2011. There is no specific data available for prior to this date. In 2011 there were 5 injuries reported; by 2012 this had increased to 21. We have no data for 2013 to decide whether this is an anomaly or as a result of increasing scooter use. I’d be reluctant to use these figures because of this. In addition the figure presented may not be a true reflection as people may not report the incidents to the relevant authorities, not considering a scooter a ‘vehicle’, or perhaps having sympathy with the driver.

Secondly, you’d have to be very fit to walk at eight miles an hour for a protracted period whilst pushing a pram of the same weight as a scooter; ‘normal’ walking speed is less than 2.9mph. There are no such physical restrictions on the speed of a scooter, beyond turning the key to the higher speed setting. But the point I was making is that there are some people who just shouldn’t be using these vehicles, and we should have a common-sense approach when dealing with this issue. If someone is irresponsible or can’t use their scooter safely (and even causes injury) there’s nothing we can do at this moment in time to prevent them from hopping back on and doing the same thing again. At least with basic training we might be able to stop some of these instances happening.

To be clear, I definitely don't believe scooters should be banned, they are truly life enhancing to so many. But I don't think that should be to the detriment of other people when education could prevent accidents.

If they don't pass then they can't be allowed to use it unsupervised in a public place, Same as for other motorised vehicles.

But it's not a motorized vehicle. It's a piece of equipment disabled people need to function day to day.

And staying that people don't need a car to function is not accurate. Some people do need cars to function hence why the motability scheme exists. I need my motability car to get my disabled DS to school and anywhere else including hospital appointments, respite etc, he can't use the buses and has to travel six miles each way to school each day. He can't even use a taxi to get to school as the council tried that and they couldn't manage it.

And what if someone decided DS was too dangerous in his wheelchair/whatever he uses? Would it be alright to take it away from him for the safety of other people? Are you saying it would be alright to deprive him of necessary equipment?

If I couldn't drive safely and couldn't have a car then I would have to employ a driver and have a suitable vehicle for them to drive so I could get my son where he needs to be.

Yes, you have just proved my original point that you don't need a car to function day to day. If you couldn't drive, someone else could drive your son. Not the same thing as regulating a scooter.

I couldn't just get in a car and drive and put others at risk because I need to drive due to my sons disability. I would have to find a safe solution.

Exactly. But there is no alternative for people that need a scooter. Can't you see that? It's like taking away people's legs because they stumble into people and saying "tough shit".

No one is looking for any old excuse to be offended Jelly, (although you are without doubt the most offensive poster I have encountered in a long time).

People are justifiably offended by the very disabilist tone of many posts on this thread

I think one of the few pleasures of old age is the opportunity to be a miserable old sod on a mobility scooter - driving with determined and maddening slowness along a busy pavement.

It's like taking away people's legs because they stumble into people and saying "tough shit".

Yup.

Nobody's yet risen to challenge of offering an 'acceptable' solution

one of the few pleasures of old age is the opportunity to be a miserable old sod on a mobility scooter - driving with determined and maddening slowness along a busy pavement.

Heh, that's quite motivating

And craic for the hundredth time! scooters for use on the pavement have governors that prevent them going faster than 4mph. This is the law. Please check your facts. 4mph is the speed my fit DH walks at, it is the top speed on my buggy.

But there haven't been any disabalist comments Tinky. How is it disabilst to suggest that there should be regulations for a mode of transport that is dangerous if used incorrectly?

And really if you are so horribly offended by my comments then that is your problem. I'm sure if the mods felt I'd crossed a line this thread would have been removed by now.

This isn't a thing with disabled people (and elderly people) on one side, and horrible able-bodied people on the other - it's a thing with people who use mobility scooters on one side (who by the nature of things will either be elderly, disabled or both) and pedestrians on the other, who will include able-bodied people, other disabled people and elderly people.

I've already mentioned that people with hearing loss aren't going to be able to hear the local guy around here, whose pedestrian-avoidance technique in crowds is shouting at them to get out of the way. Plenty of people (including me, at times) can't move quickly, due to disability, so you all who are shouting abelism get to choose whether it's more abelist for expecting people with mobility issues to dive out of the way, or for expecting Shouty Mobility Scooter Guy to drive considerately.

And for all those straw men involving licences and training for toddler, prams, etc etc - a Class 3 mobility scooter can weigh 300 lbs unladen, and will weigh a hell of a lot more with a fully-grown adult and their shopping on top. A pram at the very heavy end of the spectrum will weigh less than 40 lbs unladen (most are much, much lighter) and will have a baby - not a grown adult - in them. I know which I'd rather run me over.

I'll agree that education seems to be needed Craic, but it may be as much for the other pavement users as for the people operating the scooters.

For example, I didn't know until reading this thread that the scooters don't have brakes, and therefore don't stop as quickly as you might expect.

There are already many, many older people who could benefit from a mobility scooter, but would not have one. Often people can be very reluctant to accept that they need assistance, and I would suggest this is a problem we should all be more concerned about.

So I would say that any initiatives around scooter use need to be carefully designed to encourage the greater use of scooters and de-stigmatising them, and the people who use them.

The number of injuries caused to pedestrians by scooters have only been recorded since 2011. There is no specific data available for prior to this date. In 2011 there were 5 injuries reported; by 2012 this had increased to 21.

You're more likely to be attacked by a shark than to get injured by a scooter.

And to put that into perspective, you're more likely to get struck by lightening than to get bit by a shark.

That's right, you're more likely to get struck by lightening than to be injured by a scooter. I hardly think this is reason to suddenly impose restrictions and unnecessary waiting time for a piece of essential equipment.

It's about as silly as banning swimming in the ocean.

utterly ludicrous as prams and buggies aren't motorised and don't weigh several tons!

Neither do scooters. You're thinking of cars - you know, the vehicle you were driving with barely enough due care & attention.

Scooters weigh about 50kgs, around five times as much as an unloaded Bugaboo.

Garlic an acceptable solution is for scooters to be more regulated. Training given to people when they first buy the scooter and which is also included in the price. And then regular (like once every 3-5 years say) a training refresher course.

Sorry Tinkly, I was working off these minutes from a meeting of the the Parliamentary Advisory Council For Transport Safety, and well as The Highway Code, which states:-

"You should give pedestrians priority and show consideration for other pavement users, particularly those with a hearing or visual impairment who may not be aware that you are there."

The Highway Code also states that machines can be increased to 8mph for road use; this would indicate that many (not all) scooters have variable speed settings.

Sorry, I'll "check my facts" more thoroughly next time. Those minutes are fairly enlightening.