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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To send dd to a school in special measures?

66 replies

Specialcircsmay · 17/09/2014 22:08

Graded 4 in all areas. No light at the end of the tunnel - ofsted report was damning.

New head is coming in soon. But would this alone make you think it's ok or should I avoid like the plague?

OP posts:
Vertana · 17/09/2014 22:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NynaevesSister · 17/09/2014 22:12

What is it about the school that makes you want to send her there?

CromerSutra · 17/09/2014 22:13

Grade 4 in ALL areas? Yes I would avoid like the plague. I say that as a teacher who has worked in all kinds of schools. Having said that they will be under massive scrutiny and should be receiving huge amounts of help to improve from now on.

That's not necessarily to say that every outstanding school would be your cup of tea though but grade 4 in all areas is bad news.

Original poster
Specialcircsmay · 17/09/2014 22:13

They'd snatch her up if we applied but I'm not sure.

Pros are location. Dd is musical and if she wants to stay late for band, choir and so on she can easily get there and back under her own steam.

It's a church school which I prefer.

I think she'd be fine academically wherever but I'm concerned about other children frightening her (behaviour was mentioned numerous times in the ofsted report) and general low aspirations.

OP posts:
CromerSutra · 17/09/2014 22:15

Grade 4 in a few areas could be a totally different story though.

Vertana · 17/09/2014 22:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Specialcircsmay · 17/09/2014 22:17

Ofsted said all areas. Would you definitely avoid then, Cromer? I do have alternatives which in many ways I prefer but the problem is transport - there's a school bus but if she missed it or if she couldn't get on it for whatever reason (music) she would need to get a bus to the town centre and then a bus home.

OP posts:
Ionacat · 17/09/2014 22:23

I would visit, talk to parents, students and make up my own mind. And make sure I went for a visit outside the open mornings so I could see what it was really like. Having worked for a school that got a 4 for behaviour thanks to a head that subsequently left, behaviour was turned around within a few weeks and even low level disruptive behaviour was taken seriously and dealt with. The new head will almost certainly want to introduce him/herself and reassure parents. I would consider it and go with your gut feeling.

YellowTulips · 17/09/2014 22:23

If I had a choice - and it sounds like you do - I'm pretty sure I wouldn't choose convenience and a hope things might get better against the option of a school performing well already.

If the school does improve you could - if your child wants - relocate her after a couple if years. Though given how she will make friends etc I think that's a long shot.

Original poster
Specialcircsmay · 17/09/2014 22:28

Oh, I definitely wouldn't want to move her after she'd started and hopefully settled somewhere - that would be an absolute last resort really, if (say) she was experiencing horrendous bullying or really dire teaching.

That's why I'm keen to make the right decision.

It isn't exactly convenience, but at the same time I don't want her to have her extra curricular activities curtailed because of buses, if you see what I mean. Plus, part of me wonders if socially it's good to send her as she's certainly an A*-C including English and maths pupil, well behaved and well motivated, which is probably exactly the sort of child they need.

I visited today but it's hard to say really.

OP posts:
halamadrid · 17/09/2014 22:28

Probably the best time to go to such a school. They will have a new headteacher; a new posh uniform (because a new uniform makes all the difference of course!); lots of continuous scrutiny and there will be extra funding.

GnomeDePlume · 17/09/2014 22:29

We had Hobson's choice of one school which was in and out of special measures like it was caught on the door handle. The school reached its nadir when it managed to be second from bottom on the school league tables.

The year the school plummeted to the bottom DD1 left that school with straight As at GCSE.

If another, better, school had been available despite knowing DD1's results I would rather she had gone elsewhere.

Pico2 · 17/09/2014 22:33

It sounds like you actually won't need to decide in time for school applications. Apply elsewhere and secure a place in a more reliable school, then reassess in the summer term as they will still have places available in the currently failing school.

MrsHerculePoirot · 17/09/2014 22:34

I would send my child there - it is very likely they will have a new head, new leadership, tonnes of support from the Borough and HMI and any rubbish teachers will be weeded out. I work in a school that has a new head and we have been fighting to stay out of special measures, our results increased massively this year and that is down to the hard work of the staff, it had been hard, hard work, and we have been undersubscribed for ages, it now looks like. Things are on the up. Three years ago I wouldn't have wanted to send my DD there, now I would in a shot!

Vycount · 17/09/2014 22:35

Are you talking about sending her there next September or sooner?
If the school is in special measures it will have to convert to academy. That's the first thing to consider, if it's going to be with a strong academy sponsor that could be a positive. Just don't think academy means it's some sort of super-school though, it's just a word in this situation.
When a school goes into Special Measures generally a lot of support goes in place to turn the school around quickly and prepare it for academy conversion. Ofsted will carry out regular interim inspections before doing another full inspection. The LA and possibly the Diocese will be having regular monitoring progress meetings with the HT and Chair of Governors. Ofsted expect to see clear signs of improvement within 6 weeks, and for it to continue rapidly. Reports of all the Ofsted visits will be published on the school and Ofsted websites.
You should be able to get some idea of how it is going if you ask to read the public minutes of the governing body meetings and associated papers (which are legally part of the minutes). There might be some confidential governing body minutes, but if they've got any sense they will be open about what is happening to turn the school around and keen for people to see the data.
So there's quite a lot you could do to help yourself make the decision. I have seen schools turn around really quickly. I'm thinking of schools coming out of Special Measures in about 14/15 months for example. I would certainly consider a school in Special Measures because the support for those pupils is almost certainly going to be good, and they will be out of the category really quickly. Just do a bit of research though, because some schools manage to fail in spite of all that is done to help!

Original poster
Specialcircsmay · 17/09/2014 22:36

Well

I don't think the uniform will change as the school only opened 2 years ago! That's part of what is worrying, absolutely stunning building, clean, shiny, amazing facilities, yet it seems the shabby comp a few miles away is actually better!

OP posts:
Original poster
Specialcircsmay · 17/09/2014 22:36

Vycount, it is already an academy.

Yes, September 2015 my baby!

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 17/09/2014 22:41

I'm normally open minded about schools in special measures as they'll have more funding given to them, and experienced governors brought in from the LA etc.

However, this school does sound particularly bad and the fact it's a new school wouldn't bode well with me either.

She may be 'fine academically wherever', but is 'fine' all you want for her?

Kids need to be challenged, encouraged and mentally stretched to reach their potential. It doesn't sound as though this school is particularly good in providing that.

chilephilly · 17/09/2014 22:45

Not so Vycount. My school is in SM and sounds very similar to what the OP has described. HMI approved our action plan and when the academy sponsor came sniffing round we told them to do one. You can convert voluntarily of course, but if HMI and OFSTED think you know what you're doing they leave you alone. Unless there is a political agenda at stake......

WorraLiberty · 17/09/2014 22:47

Yes, not all of them are forced to become academies.

CromerSutra · 17/09/2014 22:47

Yes I think I would unless I had it in some sort of authority (say from many people whose kids were pupils) that it was, in fact a fantastic school and had been misrepresented hugely by Ofsted. It would have to be quite some mishap to be graded 4 in all areas though.

GnomeDePlume · 17/09/2014 22:49

I agree WorraLiberty our experience was that as our school was the only one in the town there was huge pressure to keep the school going no matter how dire it got.

Despite evrything my DD did well but this school did not educate DD beyond what it had to do. DD was in no way prepared for A levels.

Vycount · 17/09/2014 22:52

Chilephilly - The normal expectation from the DfE is that schools in Special Measures will convert to academy, that's easy to look up. It is just about possible to fight that in some circumstances, but most of the time the school will convert. Op can easily check that can't she?
A school with all 4's that is in Special Measures isn't particularly bad - in the Special Measures scale of things, it just deserves to be in that category. Before the DfE had the ability to force academisation my local primary went from Special Measures to Good in I think it was 15 months. Their Ofsted report was all 4's. It's possible and if this school we're talking about looks likely to turn around the signs will already be there.

Vycount · 17/09/2014 22:55

www.theguardian.com/teacher-network/teacher-blog/2014/feb/11/schools-resisting-academy-status-forced-conversion
Interesting reading, but it does show that on the whole it's still quite difficult to fight off forced conversion. Anyway, sometimes conversion is a good move.

NerfHerder · 17/09/2014 23:04

If it's only been open 2 years, and is 4 in all areas, I would not be sending my child there.

2 buses is nothing in terms of school travel, esp if there's a school bus laid on the route which she'd make 90% of the time.