To send dd to a school in special measures?

[Specialcircsmay]

Graded 4 in all areas. No light at the end of the tunnel - ofsted report was damning.

New head is coming in soon. But would this alone make you think it's ok or should I avoid like the plague?

Oh dear, it's only been open two years and already that bad. That throws a different light on the subject.

I know primary is different, but years ago my daughter started nursery in a school just put into special measures and it was brilliant. Turned around very quickly by the wonderful new Head and smaller class sizes as lots of people sent their kids to schools outside the village. It's still a very good school now, massively oversubscribed.

Conversely, for secondary she was allocated a school recently out of special measures (wonderful new head, small class sizes, free transport...) and I fought tooth and nail for her to go elsewhere because that particular school was in the middle of a really rough estate, behaviour and academic attainment was poor and the Ofsted report was damning about their lack of provision for more academically gifted children.

I think you need to visit the school, work out whether you think they'll have turned it around in time, and decide which is best over all for your child. Do they even offer the music clubs she would want to attend?

Just a thought though: From bitter experience of school appeals I think you would be safer to apply for a more stable school further away. If in the mean time this closer school improves, you will almost certainly find they have spaces and would be happy to have your child before the start of the next school year. It is very likely you could move from a better-graded school to one emerging from Special Measures. Moving to a better-graded school would more than likely be extremely difficult as if it's anything like around here they'll be oversubscribed.

Ah, missed the bit about only open two years. That's not a gradual slide, that's a serious problem - probably on multiple levels.

I wouldn't especially since behaviour is frequently mentioned in the OFSTED report. I worked in a school like this and felt really sorry for the kids who actually wanted to learn.

FYI, also from an appeals point of view, if you decide against the closer school (or decide to wait and see how it improves) it may be risky to include it even at the bottom of your list of schools. Round here the good schools are further afield and vastly oversubscribed and they try to push you into your closest school. It is significantly harder to mount an appeal if you are allocated a school that was somewhere on your list.

Crikey - DD went to a school that went into special measures but it wasn't 4 in all areas and it had lots going for it as far as I could tell - great atmosphere, friendly kids, some lovely staff. She got 12 straight A's and loads of help in the form of after school sessions. I think you have to get a feel for it yourself - ask to go in on an ordinary teaching day (DD's school were happy for parents to do this) and see what you think.

I'd approach it with extreme caution, IME decent parents avoid and a few bale out, even when SM, was short lived and slightly OTT.

We were Good again in little over a year.

4 for behaviour would worry me.

StitchWitch that's a really good point about appeals.

The 4 for behaviour though isn't just about the kids behaving in the classroom. It is about the behaviour policies and practices in place, it is also about safeguarding and policies and procedures about that. You would need to read it carefully, but essentially you could easily get a 4 for not having robust polices and that monitored and implemented properly across the school. Being a new school it sounds like they perhaps didn't have the leadership team in place that was strong enough. Either they will replace them, or work with them to support them in turning things around.

Funny but the fact it is only 2 years old is almost better to me, they've started off on the wrong foot rather than having awful entrenched views and ancient teachers you can't get rid of.

That said, I wouldnt blink at her occasionally needing 2 buses to get home from a good school.

You say your dd is "exactly the sort of pupil they need". Very pc, and all that, but why would you consider sacrificing your daughter's education for the greater good? If you get it wrong, you don't get to rewind and start again, you know.
She should be perfectly capable of getting two buses on a night where she has choir practice.

My old school was a 4 in all areas, but in 1 year its now a 2 with features of 1, and results are up 27% to the highest in the county. I believe they will be inviting ofsted back soon to get the 1 in all areas.

Behaviour has to be pretty dire to get a grade 4. Not a nice environment in which to learn.

Not necessarily Cromer. We had a bad reputation from a few colossal dickhead children so the parents opinion survey came back negative and ofsted said they had to take their word for it. But they did admit that the behaviour they observed did not match how the parents felt.

We were the old comp to the local grammar in a town people don't ever leave. Damned from the start.

You are looking at things only from a practical sense - ie) getting to school, getting back home after clubs etc BUT is the school actually the right school for your DD?! Practicalities aside, is it the right place for her? Bearing in mind your child isn't a social experiment and bearing in mind the school acts as a foundation to her future life (qualifications, peers, expectations). Have you visited both schools a couple of times? Because that's really the only way you will have a proper gut feeling about what's best for her.

The only "push to get people into their local school" is that if you don't get any of the schools you put on your form, you will be allocated a place at the nearest school with places available.

Places are allocated strictly according to the admissions criteria. Often they contain a distance measure, but if it's on your list and you are high enough up the list then you will be offered a place. You could live 10 miles away, but if they have 120 places available and only 119 applicants live closer (and distance is the deciding factor) then you will get the place. You could live 20m away, but if 120 people live closer you wouldn't get a place.

If you appeal for other schools you are explaining why the school you want is the most suitable for your child (for secondary appeals). You specifically aren't appealing against the school you have been allocated.

Putting this school as a choice would have no impact on the success of an appeal. And if you don't put it down and it is oversubscribed then you could end up with a worse school much further away.

I went to a comprehensive school that was known for being "rough". It was actually fantastic. The staff were comitted, there was loads going on, it was really an exciting place to learn. My family moved to a different part of the country when I was 14 and I had to go to a school that was meant to be superb, it was hideous, cold, boring, awash with bullying....absolutely horrible. So I do take your point.

That's why I urged op to talk to other people whose children go to the school and get a proper picture. I am a teacher myself. I've worked in outstanding schools that were horrible (yes, paperwork and everything else was tip top but the atmosphere was dreadful) and schools in special measures that were really vibrant and lovely so I agree that OFSTED are not always right and I would never solely rely on and OFSTED report when choosing a school.

However, I still think to get such a damning report when a school has only been open for 2 years is not a good sign and I would not take the risk unless I had it on the authority of someone that I really trusted that it was, in fact, a good school in many ways.

We chose ds's secondary school which also was in special measures based on the fact the new HT who had been there 2 years had free hand to do as he wished with the school. This involved a lot of expulsions, school can hold 1800 but ATM only has 450 pupils. A complete overhaul of the teaching staff, virtually all the teachers have only been in the school since the HT arrived and he was given several million to bring the school building and facilities up to scratch. It is a work in progress but we feel that we have made the right choice.

We had the opposite to you in that our closest schools were all rated outstanding but were not the right schools for him. We came out of the open days for each of them thinking how bored all the students looked. There was no life in the lessons.

When we looked around the school he goes to the students were smiling, happy and looked like they enjoyed school. This was more important to us than the cramming atmosphere we perceived in the outstanding schools

Well said Cromer. Agree completely.

I was thinking a bit more about what Chilepilly and others have said about fighting academy conversion.

"Not so Vycount. My school is in SM and sounds very similar to what the OP has described. HMI approved our action plan and when the academy sponsor came sniffing round we told them to do one. You can convert voluntarily of course, but if HMI and OFSTED think you know what you're doing they leave you alone. Unless there is a political agenda at stake......"

The first thing is that of course there's always a political agenda at stake. There was a political agenda at stake when the academies were invented.

I think it's great when a school turns themselves around after a bad inspection, or a run of poor results and progress. However as a parent I wouldn't always leap to the defence of the current HT and governors. It's all very well for them to come up with a great action plan after it's all gone wrong. The fact is though that it's their job to spot the problems coming and deal with them, so that things don't get so bad for the children before they really get their act together.

When schools do badly in Ofsted the school leadership has failed. So I'm not sure I'd want the same people to continue. Just a thought.

Oh I say, thanks!

Vycount - don't forget that OFSTED' s primary role is to push through Gove-in-a-skirt's policy. Where we are there aren't enough academies, so we were doomed. Convert to acad and be good in a year? Well of course. The acads can't fail.

Don't trust Ofsted reports at all, particularly after the debacle in Birmingham. Read reports from further back and ask parents, teachers if you can and visit. Check test results and stand outside and view pupils. Surprised it is that bad as it is a church school and they are usually good. Are politics involved?