To think the Scottish tourism industry is going to be hugely affected by the referendum, whatever the outcome

[Bearbehind]

Just been reading some of the indyref threads and it made me think about the affect on Scottish tourism, mainly from English tourists,

I know it's only one factor in the grand scheme of things but it seems damned to me whatever the result.

There is such an anti English sentiment at the moment I don't think many English people will be rushing up there for a holiday will they?

It's not meant to be aggressive mrsjayy but I'm just a very logical, facts based person so I'm questioning why, when it's a fact that the anti English sentiment generated by the referendum will make some people think I twice about visiting, that those who disagree can't put forward an argument other than 'it'll be fine'

Holiday bookings are down because they were at 112% annual increase in 2012, they didn't have anywhere else to go.

#facepalm#

Ninja the OP mentions anti-Englishness, my point was that actually this campaign could have wider repercussions a) in terms of the money people have to spend on holidays within the UK and b) on perceptions among potential tourists in other countries, where the Scottish tourist industry would seek to replace any drop in domestic tourism. So yes, if people in the US who are more likely to travel internationally (by dint of their readership of an international media title like Time) get the impression that Scots are "nasty" and have a "dark side" then that might not be helpful.

FWIW - I also pointed out another story telling Americans that an independent Scotland could be cheaper for holidays.

The bank notes thing is because they are unusual. Lots of places don't accept 50 notes as the cashier won't see them often enough to make a call on whether they are legit or not.

I travel between NI and the rest of Ireland without a passport.

I don't think it will make any difference at all. In fact if anything it might give it a further boost.

It's not very different bear, it's having to change notes for no reason!

I agree that's annoying but it's just because they are not widely recognised in England- that's massively different from them not being the same currency as an Is it tush currency would be- it was be subject to exchange rate fluctuations then too.

daughterdilema I'm talking about the impact on futures bookings after the referendum for which no data is available.

Is it tush - iScottish!

I doubt those who usually holiday in the Uk and don't have passports will get them specially to take a holiday in Scotland(should that become necessary) but I have no idea how big a proportion of the tourist population this will affect.

The bank notes are different, they look different, even if they are of exactly the same value. It may be frustrating but I can understand WHY people don't feel confident handling notes they don't see regularly.

Oh and it's also worth pointing out that a lot of people who work in shops won't necessarily be English/ Scottish/ Welsh/ NIrish and may have even more trouble recognising legal tender, either notes from a different part of the UK or large denominations, because they are even less used to it - that isn't racism.

both NI and I are part of the Common Travel Area (CTA), within which citizens can move freely across borders.

But Scotland (Salmond) has also made suggestions that they will look to increase inward migration, with a more open immigration policy.

That would almost certainly jeopardise any possible membership of the CTA.

What do you want us to say, Bearbehind?

I live in Scotland. I was born in England. I have plenty of friends with Scottish and English accents, Scottish and English registered cars, who self identify as Scottish or English and sometimes both, who are voting yes or voting no.

This has been the least sectarian debate that I have ever experienced. There are no clear demographic distinctions to draw between Yes and No voters.

Some are Scottish, some are English, some are Welsh, some are Polish, some are German, some are French - on both sides.

Some are white, some are black, some are Christian, some are Muslim, some are atheist - on both sides.

Some are left wing, some are centre, some are right wing - on both sides.

Some identify as Catholic, some identify as Protestant, some identify as neither - on both sides.

Some are young, some are old, some are middle aged - on both sides.

Some are sensible, some are stupid, some are cautious, some are reckless, some are law abiding, some are criminal - on both sides.

It makes me sad when people make gross generalisations and assumptions about my country and the people who live in it based on internet rumour and media reports.

Come, don't come. Your opinions, thoughts and feelings are your own. They don't reflect my lived experience but there you go.

(Btw, my dh gets asked to "get me someone who speaks English you Jock cunt" on average once a week as part of his job. I always assumed that it was just that some people were aggressive arseholes rather than an endemic English hatred of the Scots.)

Oh I didn't mean thetenner story was anything but confusion on the women in the shops part I dont for a minute think she was being awkward just non English notes look different thats why I change them. I changed ni notes when I came back from Belfast too as they again look different.

Bear your opinion can't be argued with because it's your opinion.

You're basing it on anecdotal evidence and using the posters who agree with you to support it.

For those of us who live in Scotland and who haven't experienced anti-English sentiment, then our anecdotal evidence does not lead to the same conclusion as your's, obviously.

Various facts have been presented on this thread including other posters experiences that contradict your view; lack of anecdotal evidence in our areas to support your view; media coverage which does not support your view; statistics that show the trends in Scottish tourism figures.

Your heading was AIBU to think Scottish tourism will be hugely affected? Some posters, for valid reasons, think not and some think it will. I think it matters hugely which media you read and how trusting you are of its editorial bias.

Ah, sleepyhead said it much better

Totally agree with Sleepyhead and Bookaboo.

OH FFS, I think this is blown out of proportion. I live in Edinburgh and am not aware of anti-English sentiment, it's more anti-Westminster/Government and certain high profile individuals in the Government.

I think the instances mentioned in the thread (and I've only read the first 40 or so posts) are extreme and non typical, and we'd (as in Scotland, be it a yes or no vote tomorrow) be daft to turn away or put off tourists wherever they come from.

If there really is a lot of 'English out' sentiment it could impact the tourist industry badly though, because (sweeping generalisation I heard from someone who was in a position to know) 'Celts don't do tourism' - and it did seem like the tourist-related businesses (be it hotels or wildlife tours) were disproportionately run by incomer English living their dream

I don't know about that, Errol. I worked in tourism for a long time and never found that to be - overwhelmingly - the case. It's maybe different further north or in more rural areas (I'm in Glasgow) but it's an interesting point.

I understand what you're saying, Troels, I'm just disagreeing with you.
In my opinion any nastiness would be seen as specifically anti-English, or more likely related directly to the vote, not nastiness in general.
In comparison the Irish are also seen, in the US, as being generally anti-English, but I don't believe I've ever heard an American describe the Irish as anything but welcoming or friendly to tourists.

I also think that there will be people who decide to go to Scotland based on the fact that Scotland is suddenly seen as a place to go. Either because they want to take a gawk around the brand new country, or because some of them have suddenly realized that a visit to Britain (the island or the country, take your pick) can mean somewhere outside London or the SE.

About the 'tenner thing' ... Scottish banknotes are issued by banks in Scotland, not the Bank of England and do not have the same legal status outside of Scotland. The value of a bank note is precisely what someone thinks it is worth - history is full of banknotes becoming worthless pieces of paper. DH was in Scotland last weekend - the shope at the place he was staying had a till full of scottish fivers which nobody - Scots included - wanted to take in change, apparently. I don't doubt that if they take them to a Scottish bank they'll be honoured, but at that point they were effectively useless as currency. They're not actually 'legal tender' - not even in scotland (see here ).

FWIW I don't have any strong feelings either way on the referendum vote.

I think No is the logical choice simply because there are so many unanswered questions and such a massive lack of facts on the Yes side but the whole point of this thread is that the damage has already been done and, rightly or wrongly, I think there are going to be people who chose not to visit Scotland over this, whatever the result, and I think that's a really unfortunate side effect for all of this.

"I think there are many issues simmering beneath the surface in Scotland and I blame the parties concerned for allowing them to be reignited and take hold in many areas and walks of life."

I think the same is happening in England, unfortunately. Simmering division that needs no provocation. We've already got the odious UKIP riding high by invoking xenophobia and there seems to be a lot of anti-Scottish sentiment breaking through. There's more than enough tribalism in the world already. Whether it's a yes or no vote, ultimately, I think a lot of damage has been done.

Various facts have been presented on this thread including other posters experiences that contradict your view; lack of anecdotal evidence in our areas to support your view; media coverage which does not support your view; statistics that show the trends in Scottish tourism figures.

The lack of anecdotal evidence in some areas does not deter from the fact it exists in other areas and has been widely reported in the media so will very likely have a detrimental affect

The statistics showing the trends in tourism support my view to the extent that Scotland is heavily reliant on domestic tourism and any drop in it could well outweigh an increase in visitors from other parts of the world.

It's very interesting that those who don't think IABU largely live outside of Scotland and those who disagree live in Scotland, but it's those who live Scotland that are the potential tourists.