to give my DD an ultimatum

[takingstock]

DD has just turned 18. For the last 2 years she has been pushing to live elsewhere, either with her Dad, grandparents or boyfriend. She has never actually made the decision to leave home for good but has spent a lot of time sleeping away from home IYSWIM. Recently she has found a friend who owns a flat and has taken to dossing down on her floor. She spent practically all of the summer there. Now that college has started again we had an agreement that she would spend weekdays at home and then she could do what she wanted on a Friday and Saturday. However, she has not stuck to this at all.

The problem with all of this is that not being here means she doesn't contribute in our family life at all, comes and goes as she pleases, it is very disruptive for me and my younger DS and I never know what her plans are. She leaves her bedroom in a complete mess when she's not here so wet towels are left to go mouldy, clothes are left lying in dirty heaps and I end up looking after her guinea pigs because she is not here to do it.

I am angry that she only thinks of herself, cares little for the home I am struggling to pay for and walks all over me when I try to bring some certainty to the situation. So do I make her choose just to bring an end to the extreme frustration and anxiety I feel or should I continue to put up with this?

I think if she wants to live elsewhere, then let her. But she must take the animals with her.

Keep her room just the bare minimum - comfy bed, etc. But she moves out, completely, if that's what she wants. Does she work?

She has a well paid part time job but not quite enough to live on. I think she pays towards food at her friends and over the summer, gave her some money towards bills. She pays for nothing at home.

I would give her several ultimata.

Either she takes care of her pets, or they get rehomed.

Either she keeps her bedroom tidy and works out where the laundry basket is, or she moves out.

Is she working? Does she contribute to her keep?

Cross post.

Make her pay for some of what it costs to feed her and do her laundry.

Taking stock, I empathise with you! It is an incredibly difficult time when 17/18 year olds are in that weird phase of being a 'semi-adult, so still working, looking grown up and acting like a kid (also read self-centred and entitled at times, but often just struggling to understand what being a grown up entails.. Ie scarey!)

Re you DD, if she is receptive then an honest conversation would help, so not just saying "shape up or ship out" but rather "Id like to talk about your living arrangements" and give her a few honest facts in a kind way. It would help to make it a two-way conversation so she has the chance to talk as well, hopefully she will want to do this. For example

• it is no longer a viable situation her drifting between households, you would like to "agree" (being the important word so she doesnt feel completely cut adrift from her home) the arrangement from now on.

• you recognise her growing maturity and want her to make the decisiin what to do, because it is her future. But at the same time, she needs to understand the impact on her family.

-as an adult you expect a minimum standard when she is at home and it is not acceptable to treat the place like a boarding house (tough love here) also some words about the disruption to routine, mealtimes, not knowing whether she is here, there, on Mars etc.

-that you love her of course! And that she always has a home with you, but you need the decision to be made rather than it just drifting along with no agreement being made between you both.

In a nutshell, positive affirmations, recognition of adulthood, but also a clear message that her current standards of cleanliness and general behaviour is not acceptable.

I am sure she will respect you for it (even if she doesn't like the immediacy of the situation and putting the decision to her, "wake up and smell the coffee" adulthood isnt a bed of roses type message)

Believe me, I have been rehearsing this one over and over, it will be visited upon me and DP in the near-ish future!

so still working

Sorry brain is mush, I meant still studying, or only working p/t

Sorry for the War and Peace!

Me again!

I meant to say, it would be worth agreeing an achievable timeframe to move to the "new arrangement, so it doesn't drag on. Probably a transition rather than an absolute cut off. May something like "shall we agree that by the end of October you have sorted out your living arrangements to x y z".

That way you can hold her to it and it gives her an achievable and specific target.

Thank you. I'm going to ask to meet up with her today to discuss. However if I give her a timescale to work towards, she will not stick to it and there aren't many sanctions left when they get to 18 are there??

Don't ask her, tell her.
She is treating you terribly: totally disregarding your house and your feelings and all for free!
First, she needs to pay digs money. As she is working part time, that won't cover her costs, so I'd go for about half of her wage. That is realistic and will make her realise what it costs.
Second she stops treating you like dirt, let's you know where she is, keeps her room clean and tidy and does her fair share of housework.
She is 18. A legal adult who is behaving like a spoilt brat. You aren't giving her any reason to change.
And just accept the gps will stay because she isn't mature enough to be responsible for 2 innocent animals.
Time for a reality check for madam!

I told her I would support her through her A levels so I don't want to ask her for housekeeping even though she is earning. As soon as she leaves college, I would expect her to pay though.

She is treating you terribly: totally disregarding your house and your feelings and all for free!

Yes, right, like just about every teenager in the land then! The most important person in their world is Number 1 (themselves) all part of de-nesting.

That's the problem with the age they are, they look like a "grown up" (compared to when they were little children) but with the brain and thought processes of a 10 yo! There is no magic switch to turn on, it will be a succession of strong messages that " mean business" but underpinned with love because they are often vulnerable at that age.

Okay, I thought she had left school already. Fair enough about the figs then. I take it she buys all her own clothes, toiletries, pays for travel etc from her wages?
Your real issue is the terrible way she treats you. It's a cliche but as you are supporting her she should respect you and your house rules. And obviously do an adults share of the housework. You need to prepare her for independent life.

Lots of good suggestions.

I would suggest to have this talk with her on a neutral ground, so maybe out for coffee or something like that

Firstly, the guinea pigs - talk to her and explain that she looks after them or they are rehomed. Regardless of how she feels about being at home, she has a responsibility whether she likes it or not.
As for the rest, talk on a neutral place like others have said. Good luck.

Does she realise the effect on her little brother? If she doesnt see it, she may not think about it.

And yes, guineapigs should be top of the list of discussion!

She pushes her brother away most of the time, even though he looks up to her. I have told her not to but it doesn't make any difference.

Do you still do her washing/ironing/clearing up of the pigsty? Do you give her money for college or anything else?

No money but yes to all household tasks although she must be washing some of her things at her friends flat because there's hardly been anything to wash recently.

I do think some kids do have to move away in order to start properly growing up. Perhaps she is one of those.

She's 18 not 14! Stop looking after the pets and if she doesn't take them to a shelter or rehome! As for the towels and the room etc. Don't do anything else for her, dirty sheets left on the lot. Buy new different coloured towels, Primark have tonnes and tell her that they are not for her use! If she wants to live on her own, fine. BUT she's taking the piss and knows it. Also she is an adult and Ds is a child, if she treats him in an abusive way, respond to her as the adult she is and tell her if it doesn't stop you will throw her out and report her!

She is treating you with contempt, so now she is 18 it is time for things to change. She will never be a full time part of your family again, but at the moment she is winging it on the good will of others, and it won't last.
Tell her your home is always her home, but now she must decide where her full-time base is, and that is where the guinea pigs go.
Tell her you will be clearing/tidying her room on such and such a date, and she WILL help you.
If/when she doesn't, go ahead, clear and box all the clutter, bag the dirty clothes, or wash and dry but do not iron them, and arrange the room so it is easy for you to maintain.
Show her the room and tell her this is how it will be in future; anything left lying about will be thrown away; when it happens, do it.
Tell her she is always welcome at home, but she must tell you when she is coming, otherwise no home privileges: cooked meals, washing machine, clean sheets etc available.
You need to know because of working out finances.
Be firm, pleasant but implacable.

Don't buy new towels! That is rewarding her slovenly behaviour. Mark the manky ones so only she uses them.

kick her out

she will soon sort herself out

Telling her not to push her brother away doesnt tell her the effect that her behaviour has on others. Have you said to her - DS really looks up to you, and when you push him away it really hurts his feelings.

Also, I wouldn't necessarily call it kicking her out. It's disproportionately punitive IMO. Look at it as helping her to manage the next step to independence. And broach it with that tone as well, so that it becomes a positive thing for her and for you.