TO THINK THAT INSTEAD OF SETTING BY ABILITY...

[icymaiden]

.. schools should set by behaviour.At least in the first instance so that all the kids who can't or won't behave , can be in a class together, so that everyone else can achieve their best.Once you have separated that lot out, then the remainder could still be set by ability

You do know that there are special schools especially for children who are kicked out of mainstream for their behaviour?

So effectively the whole school, much like the Op's streamed set, is full of badly behaved children.

The difference is what? It's judged to work. The children get shall classes and well trained teachers. Why can't that work in mainstream?

*And before somebody says, but what if the child is SN!

Well, guess what - EVERY child in the class is special.*

This bollocks^

If you had any inkling what it is like to either have additional needs or be a carer for someone with additional needs, you wouldn't spout such utter crap.

Have you any idea of the monumental task it is for a child with autism (for example) to overcome their sensory issues and anxieties to be able to even access education?

Evening all
This Is My Child Campaign for those who may need to take a look
And the guidelines are ^ just up there.

Thanks
MNHQ

What about the manipulative kids who are as good as gold in front of the teachers but bully other kids in private, then said kids self esteem drops and they start to disengage from learning. Does golden child bully get to stay in the good group or crushed victim?

MrsStarLord, that'd be the crushed victim who eventually snaps that gets put in the naughty class, as always seems to be the case.

And before somebody says, but what if the child is SN!

Well, guess what - EVERY child in the class is special.

This is why I am not a big fan of the term 'special needs'. Some children need extra support to access education even on the most basic level.

obviously PRU's DON'T work since people seem to think they are schools for naughty kids

they aren't - I work in one - they are provision for young people who have specific needs or who can not continue in their current school - often they are a temp measure

I don't include the medical PRU's in that either ...for those naughty kids with cancer and broken legs

*You do know that there are special schools especially for children who are kicked out of mainstream for their behaviour?

So effectively the whole school, much like the Op's streamed set, is full of badly behaved children.

The difference is what? It's judged to work. The children get shall classes and well trained teachers. Why can't that work in mainstream?*

How dare you write off an entire population of kids like this? The needs of kids in special schools in incredibly complex and they are not by any stretch all badly behaved.
Can we start a school for people who have no idea what they are talking about but feel that they are qualified to sit in judgement over others? I have never heard such total twaddle.

onelastfling: "And before somebody says, but what if the child is SN!

Well, guess what - EVERY child in the class is special."

_

My children are not SN, thankyouverymuch. They have SN.

And yes, all children are special, but not all have disabilities or other additional needs, so there's no need to be so fatuous.

*And before somebody says, but what if the child is SN!

Well, guess what - EVERY child in the class is special*

The child 'is' not SN, the child may 'have' special educational needs.

Cross post!

Mrs she's incorrect - she is referring to Pupil Referral Units which are not actually 'schools full of badly behaved children' at all

sadly ignorant people will continue to think this

There are specialist school for Autistic kids, profoundly deaf kids, blind kids, kids with severe learning difficulties, kids with moderate learning difficulties

it doesn't mean they suit ALL kids that fit the label or that they are the best options for those kids

so it's not a valid argument to say something exists so it should be suitable for all kids that may have difficulties

inclusion is better - with the right support and the right funding it can work...for some kids but not all

and yes my child is beautiful, funny, clever, kind. compassionate, loving, good at sport and happens to have some mental health issues - she is not 'special needs' she has additional needs - it does not define her

onelastfling that's offensive. My DD has autism and the anxiety and stress that this first couple of weeks in reception have caused her make me want to cry. OP she's also incredibly bright but will probably never get the chance to show that due to intolerant, judgemental bigots.

My neuro-typical son excelled in a mainstream school alongside kids from all walks of life and did not require those with challenging behaviour to be exiled for him to succeed.

A....
.....
Hahahaha OP!

What a pile of wank!

Thanks for the biggest laugh of the day, though

Reveal - because no mainstream school is going to be able to provide 2 members of appropriately trained staff, or more, for less than half a dozen kids in one place, who are able to teach those kids properly and not just dish out worksheets. Over a 6 form entry secondary, that could be 2 or 3 such classes in each year group, requiring, perhaps, a dozen teachers, plus a dozen TAs, at any one time, just for those kids.

A mainstream secondary is probably operating on a budget of about £5-6K per pupil per year. That's what my DS's specialist EBD school costs per month

Our ds has just started at a special school, because of his vulnerability in mainstream. I am a huge advocate of inclusion and desperately wanted sd to stay in mainstream but the behaviour of some of the other kids (the sporty, high achieving well behaved kids in the eyes of the school) meant that he wasn't safe. So we made the sad decision of moving him, because of the judgmental and intolerant attitude of other kids who probably learned it from their ignorant parents

oh that's sad :( sorry Mrsstarlord x

Thanks Gordy, my very sensible but don't tell him I said that husband pointed out that continuing to fight the battle was going to be harmful to ds in the long term, which is what prompted the decision and he is ok where he is but reading some of the stuff on here blows my mind!

ConstantCraving, I hope you dd settles in to her school and she gets the opportunity to blossom. My dd2 is in MS and we have had good and bad times but she has proved a lot of people wrong and is doing well.

Dd2 would probably be classed as 'naughty', she struggles to sit still, can be noisy or refuse to speak, she is also very intelligent and enjoys learning when she's being taught by a understanding teacher.

it's utterly depressing isn't it - I know some parent in primary had real issues with my dd - funnily enough the one who complained the most was the mother of the girl who bullied her relentlessly - DD2 attempted to hurt herself in the toilets and when she came back to school (after a hospital stay) this kids told her repeatedly to try again and do a better job

they were both 11 ffs :(

it breaks your heart

dd1 not 2 !

for your daughter and you Gordy. Given what I have seen on mn I'm not surprised by these horrible attitudes from kids if these are their role models

Even when specialist provision is appropriate there are never enough places for the demand.

But some people on here think you just say 'oh I think my child has additional needs, can we have a place in an appropriate specialist provision please' and as if by magic, one appears.

(((Gordy))) and (((MrsS))) you can see where some beautifully behaved children get their attitude from, can't you?