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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think my husband's employer has this wrong and can't actually do this?

91 replies

MrsDeTamble · 15/09/2014 13:43

I'm wondering if anyone could give me advice on a situation my husband is in at work.

He received a promotion last year meaning he would be on an annual salary rather than an hourly rate. Holidays previously were worked out on an hourly basis i.e 8 hours = 1 day off, 35.5 hours = 1 week off and each employee had so many hours per year holiday.

Now he is on a salary, holidays are taken on a day by day basis (x amount of days per year). This didn't work out as advantageously as previously as the firm closes at lunch time on Fri - previously to have a Fri off, it would have cost him 5 hours of holiday whereas now he has to take a full day, no half days are allowed so if he takes a Friday off, he in effect loses half a days holiday as the firm is closed anyway. He was also given an extra weeks holiday as part of the promotion package. I hope this makes sense?!

I have recently gone back to work 3 days per week. To save money on child care, we put in a request that my husband be able to consendse his week into 4 days, working his 35.5 hours over 4 days rather than 5. We are lucky that the firm have said yes and so far it's working well. However today he tells me that because he no longer works Friday, the firm are taking 5 days holiday away from him.

I don't believe that a. They're actually allowed to do that and b. I am sure he is entitled to his full holidays as he has not reduced his working hours, he is just doing the hours in a shorter period of time.

I can understand why the firm thinks they should do this, my husband would only have to take 4 days off to get a full week away but I believe the answer is to go back to counting holidays in hours rather than days like the people who are paid an hour rate have it. So instead of having 25 days per year, he should have 177.5 hours and to take a week off it should cost him 35.5 hours.

Does this make any sense? Am I right or are the firm right? Can they just take a weeks holiday away from an employee like that?

What really really riles me is he often works more hours than he is paid for anyway!

Thanks - sorry it's so long!

OP posts:
BoomBoomsCousin · 15/09/2014 13:47

I don't know the legality, but it makes sense to me. If he's condensed his work week, each day he takes off Mon - Thurs will be more "hours" he is taking off, so it seems reasonable he gets fewer whole days to take.

redspottydress · 15/09/2014 13:48

It makes sense to me.

redspottydress · 15/09/2014 13:49

Most people work longer than they are paid for too.

DoJo · 15/09/2014 13:49

What reason have they given for taking the five day's holiday from his allowance?

SauvignonBlanche · 15/09/2014 13:50

Sounds right to me - sorry.

Bailey101 · 15/09/2014 13:51

Yup, sounds right :(

Explored · 15/09/2014 13:52

That makes perfect sense to me. He gets, say 25 days holiday, when working a 5 day week = 5 week's holiday. Now he's working a 4 day week, he only needs 4 days off for a week's holiday but he's getting the same number of hours off. If they gave him the same number of days they'd be giving him an extra week, plus a day off. How would that be right?

IME almost everyone who is salaried, rather than hourly paid, works more than their official hours. That's entirely normal and reasonable too. My contract says something like "will work the hours reasonably required to do the job"

Original poster
MrsDeTamble · 15/09/2014 13:53

So his colleague who works 35.5 hours over 5 days gets 25 days holiday per year but because DH works 35.5 hours over 4 days, he should only get 20 days per year?

Both men work exactly the same amount of hours annually but one should get 5 days more holiday because he does his hours over 5 days? Doesn't seem fair.

If they worked it out on a hourly basis like they do for the rest of the firm other than management, DH wouldn't be at an advantage, he would be having exactly the same amount of time off as everyone else

Or am I misunderstanding something?

OP posts:
DontTurnAround · 15/09/2014 13:54

six of one half a dozen of the other really. I'm assuming he's doing a ten hour day to get paid for nine? So if he goes back to hours he'll use 9 hours for a days holiday.

either way he'll still have the same amount of time off overall, yes? if they leave him with the same number of days as he has now he will be getting 5 more than other colleagues.

HauntedNoddyCar · 15/09/2014 13:55

But if he took 1 day off now it wouldn't be 8 hours it would be 10 hours.

So if they do hours it wouldn't be pro rata but it is for days.

If he takes Mon-Thurs off at 4 days he uses 4 days of leave equivalent to the hours of a full week.
I think the employer is right.

Floggingmolly · 15/09/2014 13:55

What Explored said. Nobody on a salary works 9 to 5 anymore.

jacks365 · 15/09/2014 13:55

Only 5 days less? They have been generous. Because he only works 4 days he is only entitled to 4/5 of full entitlement assuming he must have previously had at least 33 days they would be closer if they reduced it by 7 days.

WiseGuysHighRise · 15/09/2014 13:55

I'm not sure I fully follow your post but I think the company are acting correctly.

Forget about what hourly paid staff receive - he isn't one of them and has different terms and conditions.

I went from a 5 day 35 hour week with 25 days holidays to a 17.5hr week acrooss Monday, Tuesday and half day Wednesday. My holidays went to 3/5 of 25 rather than half of 25 because I was physically in work 3 days per week (I had to take a full day leave for the Wednesday even though I only worked half a day then).

I changed my hours when the kids started school to over 5 days again, but still 17.5 hours so agian it was half of a full time post (but shorter days). My holiday allowance went back to 25 days and again, I took a full day leave even though my working days were shorter.

If your husband has condensed his working week, it it right that his annual leave is reduced to reflect this. Whether his working day is 12 hours or 4 hours, he will still take one day leave for one day off.

You're confusing the issue by bringing hours into it - he simply isn't on that kind of contract anymore and while some things may be less preferable, other parts of his employemnt will be better.

Purplecircle · 15/09/2014 13:55

Yes the holidays in days is correct, he now works 4/5 of a week days wise
If his holiday were in hours, it would be unchanged.

It's all about how much holiday is needed for a week off, it's either 35,5 hours or 4 days, both the same

Thomyorke · 15/09/2014 13:56

He does not get the Friday off in the same way Saturday and Sunday are not included as he does not work these days.

Ellypoo · 15/09/2014 13:56

If he still only needs to book one 'day' holiday to cover his new hours, then of course it's ok!

He would just use 4 days to have a whole week off, rather than 5.

Alternatively, they could keep his leave entitlement the same but each day he books actually uses 1.25 days fro his entitlement.

It will still work out the same overall.

Also, most people in salaried positions work longer hours than they are contracted for.

OcadoSubstitutedMyHummus · 15/09/2014 13:57

The employer is right. He only needs 4 days for a week's holiday. So if you didn't reduce the number of days he got them he'd actually have far more leave than those doing 5 days

Primrose123 · 15/09/2014 13:57

I think the company is right if I have understood correctly.

Do you mean that when he was working 5 days a week, he would have (for example) 25 days off, or five weeks, but now that he only works 4 days a week, he will only have 20 days off, which is still 5 full weeks for him. Is that what has happened? If so, I think that is pretty normal.

redskybynight · 15/09/2014 13:57

But your husbands day is 1.25 times as long as someone who works a 5 day week.

If he had to book 1.25 days holiday every time he had one of his days off, he could keep the same number of days as a 5 day worker.

Original poster
MrsDeTamble · 15/09/2014 13:57

Hmm reading the last few responses, maybe I am misunderstanding....

Thank you for your responses!

Can they do this part way through the holiday year though? He'd been saving his holidays in case the little one is ill as my job is less flexible with time off. He has only been working this system since the start of Sept.

OP posts:
jacks365 · 15/09/2014 13:58

What you are missing is that his colleagues 25 days is worth 5 weeks and your husbands 20 days is also worth 5 weeks.

lottiegarbanzo · 15/09/2014 13:58

I think he's working FT hours, so is entitled to a FT holiday allocation. Doesn't matter if that's granted in hours or days.

You can't squeeze a full week away, into a four day holiday!

WiseGuysHighRise · 15/09/2014 13:59

So his colleague who works 35.5 hours over 5 days gets 25 days holiday per year but because DH works 35.5 hours over 4 days, he should only get 20 days per year?

Yes.

Both men work exactly the same amount of hours annually but one should get 5 days more holiday because he does his hours over 5 days? Doesn't seem fair

Or you could say, your husband gets 52 Fridays a year off. Add that to the 20 days holiday and it is VERY favourable to him as you say if they both work the same hours, surely this other man should be entitiled to 52 days additional holiday?

Hopefully · 15/09/2014 13:59

Employer seems to be in the right, to me. Each day off your husband takes is (say) 2 hours longer than his colleague's day off, so he is getting more time off for his day off, iykwim. Therefore it makes sense he should have fewer days holiday as each holiday day is 'worth' more hours off.

Explored · 15/09/2014 14:00

Yes, that's exactly fair OP. Colleague takes 5 days off and gets 35.5 hours leave, his 25 days are worth 177.5 hours pa (35.5 x 5).

DH only needs to take 4 days off to get 35.5 hours leave. If DH got 25 days too he would be getting an extra 35.5 hours leave pa. His holiday entitlement (35.5 x 5) is also worth 177.5 hours, but if he got 25 days, he would have 35.5 x 6.25 = 221.875 hours leave pa.

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