To not know or understand why people don't see these things at the start of their relationship?

[MamaPain]

Had my friends round last night, a group I've known since childhood, so know all the background to their relationships.

Large amount of time was spent with two of the group complaining about their relationships.

The key issues were all things that were glaringly obvious when they met their partners. These were issues that were talked about. Now it seems to all have come as a shock to my friends and they both want to end their relationships as a result.

I'm no mystic Meg and yes DH has developed some behaviours which I couldn't have predicted but surely if he had such unbearable issues in the first place I wouldn't have been with him. Thats why I'm not now with some of the guys I went out with when I was very young, I dumped them because I didn't like some aspects of being with them.

AIBU to find it maddening that if a person knew X was a problem then, why are they shocked when X is still a problem now?

2 reasons I think. First and most common is that they think they can change them but also that when they were all loved up, the "unbearable" things weren't unbearable at all. They became so as the relationship became normal everyday life, rather than something new and exciting iyswim.

Sometimes you don't see something staring you in the face. It's human.

An ex of mine was the most wonderful charming person ever for 6 months, only let his inner monster out when he was comfortable!

Love makes people stupid.

When things calm down and they're out of the honeymoon phase, they notice the practicalities of their relationship.

I do agree with you though. When I started dating I, quite literally, made a list of what I wanted, and what would be deal breakers. I will have to find it, some of it's pretty comical, but it helped me know what I wanted. When I found DH matched about 80% of the list, I knew he was the one. 8 years later and I haven't been proven wrong. I did go through a phase of dropping guys after the first date because they didn't measure up.

Really, I think it's a good idea to sit down and think about what you want before just going in blind with no idea. You wouldn't buy a car without some idea of what were deal breakers would you?

I think lust can blind you to nearly everything in the beginning. However I agree that by the time you get to the marriage stage you should be well aware of someone's character and the likelihood that it's pretty much etched in stone.

I've been with my OH for 15 months now. I don't know if I just didn't see his shit side or if it's only just coming out. Bit if both, probably.

It's because we are told repeatedly being single is wrong and a state which if you happen to find yourself in needs to be rectified immediately.

I think most people see the problems in their partners from the start - what they can't see clearly at the beginning of the relationship is the limit of their tolerance for them.

Whoever said it's the things that attract you most at the beginning that end up driving you insane at the end was very wise...

This is why ideally all couples would not get married/have a baby or make any other lifelong commitment until after they've been together several years, have lived together and gone through some ups and downs. By then the honeymoon phase will have worn off and you've seen someone at their worst as well as in loved up mode. If you still think they are great after all that, that's the time to make the long term commitment.

Of course biologically this only works if you get together in your 20s or before.

It's because we are told repeatedly being single is wrong and a state which if you happen to find yourself in needs to be rectified immediately.

Yes, this is a problem too. When me and DH had found each other we were enjoying the freedom of being single, and I do believe that made all the difference. We didn't hook up because we were lonely, we hooked up because being together made us happier than being single.

This is why ideally all couples would not get married/have a baby or make any other lifelong commitment until after they've been together several years, have lived together and gone through some ups and downs.

Yeah, but that depends. I told my family quite confidently that I was going to marry DH about 3 months in. 5 years later we happily tied the knot. But you do need to sit down, have a talk and get to the nitty gritty how finances will be sorted, what happens if you have a kid, what if you get a job offer out of state. Get the important things discussed so you at least have it on the table.

But I'm not talking about personality traits or characteristics, more actual practical issues.

I'll give examples:

(1) Been with guy for a few years. When she met him he was mid thirties and had no steady income, had never had a proper job and was not at all interested in having any kind of career or steady employment (his prerogative of course). It wasn't that he was trying to be an artist or something it was basically that he couldn't be arsed so did odd jobs and borrowed money off whoever he could.

My friend has always been very job focused and is a qualified professional so an odd pairing but again their choice. He moved in with her and contributed nothing to the housework or cooking. She has fully financially supported him and they have had two children and he has become a sahd. She is at her wits end because she is also paying for childcare because he won't really do anything with the kids, won't look after the house and refuses to work. What a fucking surprise.

(2) Been together over 10 years, since the very beginning he has said he does not want children. Was absolutely insistent. Said she should leave him and be with someone else as he will never want them. So 11 years down the line friend is 'accidentally' pregnant. She has the baby, and once again what a fucking surprise he is not happy. He loves their child but does not enjoy doing daddy things, is not interested in participating with daddy things (but will do family things) and is generally very unhappy in the relationship. She can't believe it.

I know do many situations like this, and every time I'm utterly shocked by the fact it was so obvious and now it appears to be new information.

It's a combination of lust making you overlook shit stuff, thinking you can change them, finding faults "adorable" to start with, wanting some low level of those faults (some woman want men who "need" them and want to be able to "mother" their DP, but then realise they wanted "a bit useless" not "completely useless", or to be able to switch it off when they could do with their DP not being useless), having been single for a bit and thinking taking any man is better than being alone.

Love is blind

This:
I think most people see the problems in their partners from the start - what they can't see clearly at the beginning of the relationship is the limit of their tolerance for them.

And also I think there's an element of seeing a problem, but not understanding how it might pan out. Someone gets easily, stressed, for example, but how do they handle serious stress? Do they take a deep breath and a step back and calm down, or turn into a screaming, angry, vindictive loon?

What's not comprehensible is why some women ignore all advice and information about men they are dating: I don't think 'I was in love!' is an adequate excuse for being that stupid. Someone I know was advised that a bloke she was seeing had a bad reputation for drink and violence (his ex-wife, indeed, was a nervous wreck). She behaved as though the people telling her this were just trying to spoil her fun, moved in with him and... he turned out to be both idle AND violent. Fortunately she managed to extricate herself.

Having grown up in a terrible marriage, I was very cold-hearted and decided at a very tender age that I wouldn't touch any man who resembled my father with a barge pole.

What are "daddy things" ?
Not sure my DH has done anything you could say was that,but, then he was the stay at home parent for much of our first two children's early years,whereas roles reversed for our third child. (He was at home due to redundancies/unemployment). So, he was doing what I suppose you could call "mummy things".?

Some people grew up in disfunctional families. So behaviour that, for most people would be unacceptable, would seem normal or even an improvement on their own parents. And it's only on getting a close look at functional relationships that the contrast becomes apparent.

By daddy things I meant, he isn't interested in being a dad. He won't be left alone with the child, he doesn't want to (but apparently will if really nagged) do bath time or bed times. He won't go out alone with the child.

I can understand why. He never wanted children, doesn't like them and didn't plan this. They were in a relationship for long time where they agreed what contraception they were using and that they would not be having any children. Next thing he's told she's pregnant and will be keeping the baby. They split up numerous times during the pregnancy. He has stayed with them, financially supported, does lots of things around the house but is not at all interested in this child. He's apparently even had the snip because he doesn't want to ever have his happen again. Friend is flabbergasted, she hasn't actually said it but its all quite obvious she thought everything would turn out fine, which it clearly hasn't.

I think lust can be blind as well.

It's all so lovely in the beginning isn't it though? At least it is for most... Those initial honeymoon months where you may know something isn't quite right about them but you're oh so loved up so you look past it and don't think too much about it. Then reality sets in and the initial crazy lust ends, those things that weren't quite right in the beginning intensify and you find yourself unable to look past them anymore.

Either that or they believe it will change in time or they can change them. The single biggest mistake anyone makes is believing they can change someone, you can't EVER.

I agree OP.

I am astonished by the number of friends and relatives who are basically pissed off that their partner hasn't turned into the person they want them to be.

Sometimes, a partner is on their best behaviour in the early days of a relationship.

Sometimes, it's possible to be convinced that niggles will sort themselves out as you get to know each other. Or even that you can fix them.

Often, those things that are off don't seem to be so bothersome in the first throes of lust.

Oh and another reason, at the start, you might not be negatively effected by the bad traits and lack the foresight to realise if you continue with the relationship you will be.

So for example, if you were dating a man who was crap with money, but always seemed to have money for taking you out, that wouldn't seem to be a big problem until you are living together and he's just spent his share of the rent money on going out again. Or he lived with his parents and left all cooking, cleaning and washing to his mum, that might not occur to you he'd expect the same when living with you. Or he was controlling /tight about money, not such an issue when you live separately, have your own income, but a problem if you give up work to have dcs with him...

I think we are socialised to look at relationships romantically instead of being practical. I've seen so many women base their relationships solely on romantic feelings while ignoring red flags and not really thinking about the future or what they actually want.

I think the best thing to do is to be romantic but also think practically about a new man.

I met a guy once I really liked. I had pretty giddy romantic feelings about him. Nothing ever happened between us and I met someone else.

He was in my life for a while after I met my now husband and I couldn't help but reflect what a load of BS my romantic feelings were. This person was totally wrong for me and I now know I would have been desperately unhappy with him had we ended up together.

Funny how things work out really.

Mary i was out yesterday and i heard two young women talking about the fact that an 18 year old relation of theirs hadnt even received a birthday card for her 18th birthday from her boyfriend. They said a couple of other things that got my hackles rising too.
I said to them "i hope you dont mind me interuppting " and then went on to explain that tighwaddery could so easily turn into financial abuse. I fully expected them to tell me to sod off and mind my own business but one of them agreed with me and the other one said "Blimey i hadnt thought of that."