To think Prejudice against fat people is NOT as bad as racism.

[goodnessgracious]

To think the article in the Times today claiming that prejudice against fat people is as bad as racism and that it is one of the last socially acceptable forms of prejudice is ridiculous.

Firstly, obesity is normally caused by an addiction and has health implications for the obese person and further implications on society as whole. How can this be compared to racism in any way?

Also, it is not the last socially acceptable form of prejudice because I believe society is just as (if not more) prejudiced against smokers, alcoholics and gamblers and all people with addictions which have costs toward society.

AIBU to think that although it is not right to be prejudice against obese people it is ridiculous to compare it to racism.

Copied article extract below...

"Prejudice against fat people as bad as racism, say scientists "Dr Jackson said that prejudice against overweight people pervaded society and needed to be challenged. “People think it’s one of the last socially acceptable forms of prejudice. You just have to look at the comments section on media reports on obesity to see that obese people are subjected to labelling and even abuse and attack.”

Firstly, obesity is normally caused by an addiction and has health implications for the obese person and further implications on society as whole. How can this be compared to racism in any way?

Your skin colour has implications for your health.

Being black increases your risk of diabetes.

Being white increases your chance of developing gall stones.

Being fat does not stop you working. Being fat does not make you less intelligent.

How do you know the reason anyone is fat? And as for health implications, tofi people have exactly the same risks to health as fat people.

When you judge someone for their weight do you consider whether they are receiving cancer treatment? Or steroids for other medical problems? Or do you just judge?

The medical problem of fat shaming is one I'm experienced in. I have fluctuating blood pressure, sometimes getting into dangerous levels, that I've exhibited on and off for years. I'm also not a size 10. Whenever I see the doctor, I am told to lose weight as this is the cause of my high BP. It has been like this ever since I became an adult.

Recently I had a medical crisis resulting in 6 months of investigations and a hospital admission. The upshot of which is I have malfunctioning adrenal and thyroid glands and the rest of my endocrine system is, to quote my consultant, "sub-par". It's my adrenal gland overproducing a hormone that causes the high BP and the malfunctioning endocrine system contributes to my weight. So however much weight I lose (and it's very difficult to do when your hormones refuse to play ball) my BP won't stabilise until the hormones are sorted out.

All my life I've been blamed by the medical profession for something I simply cannot control. If I had not been overweight it may have been investigated a lot earlier. A simple blood test could have identified something wrong with my hormone levels. Yet the GPs could not see beyond my waistline. My consultant is very angry about this as potentially I could have cost the NHS even more than I already have.

Quick squizz at Next/Dorothy Perkins says size 14 = 31" waist.

In Dorothy Perkins I take a size 6, in reality I am a modern size 10 or old size 12. Dorothy Perkins sizes are in a league of their own.

Not sure why one has to be worse than the other. Can't people just realise they're both pretty shitty and just be civil and polite?

I have no idea whether racism or prejudice against fat people is more prevalent in this country, never having been a victim of either, but I do think you get more people justfying prejudice against fat people on threads like this than would try to justify racism. I guess as someone said previously it comes down to whether you see being overweight as a choice, which it seems to me that for the majority of people at least it clearly isn't.

Only with weight would we get these ridiculous comparisons that just show our prejudice

No one comes on and says that racism is worse than homophobia

Fat hating is alive and well.

I think it's the same - it's the same because it's basically being anti poor in the same way that so much of racism was about discriminating because of being poor.

Fat people are statistically less wealthy as a group, fat is about poverty and circumstance.

There are plenty of fat people who are not classed as poor, to be fair.

Also, I live in one of the most poverty stricken boroughs in London and poor people still do manage to lose weight.

I know obesity has strong links to poverty, but it doesn't mean they have no hope of losing weight unless they improve their income.

The truth is, losing weight if bloody hard work no matter what your income.

Sure I'm fat and not poor but I'm not talking about individuals I'm talking about stats and institutional racism and fat hating

If you're statistically more likely to be poor then studies say you will suffer more prejudice. And if you're perceived to be in a group that's poor because of your colour or being fat then you suffer more prejudice.

Ok - so if it is something you can change, then it should not be classified as prejudice at the same level as racism?

So any prejudice against people with different hair colors (f.ex. Ginger) is not that bad, because they could just dye it? And prejudice against people with alopecia is not that bad, as they can just wear a wig? and prejudice against gay people is not that bad, as they can just get chemical treatment for their "condition" and live a different lifestyle? And prejudice against deaf people is ok, because they can just get cochlear implants? By the way, I know that these "justs" I am listing are ridiculous - I do, but that's my equivalent to the "easily lose weight" comments. Where on earth do we draw the "Bad" line then?

I understand we have to have a conversation about it - I do not disagree - but the language used is critical, and on a website like MN, I would expect a more respectful conversation.

Neither prejudice is remotely justifiable. The seemingly increasing tendency to point and mock, abuse and frighten on the flimsiest pretext in our society.

But honestly, if anyone thinks these two prejudices are comparable in terms of their history, the threat posed to the targeted group or their discriminatory effect then they are (white) people who need their heads tested.

I'm black and overweight, by the way.

I have never had intimidation, discrimination and abuse for the latter to remotely the same degree I have for the former. Never had an overweight male friend tell me he had his skull fractured for walking into a pub where, unbeknown to him, only thin men were allowed to go.

OK, that's anecdote, not data. But really, come on.

And yes, I'm incredibly disappointed that so many posters have been so equivocal about fat prejudice. It's a vehicle for poisonous misogyny, repellent and morally wrong, end of.

I am considering hiding this thread - it is simply too destructive and damaging to my fragile mental health.

But it bothers me that this will mean one less voice speaking out against the fat-shamers, trying to bring them face to face with the very real damage their nasty comments are doing to real people like me.

I guess it matters more to some that they take every opportunity to prove their superiority in this issue than that they speak with a bit of care and sensitivity to people like me. I've just been on the phone to dh in tears. I want to stop living - but as long as people have the chance to parade their fat shaming views, what does that matter? Why should they care?

Abbie - that's really interesting what you say as I think that actually fat prejudice is growing as we become more overweight whereas police recorded racist incidents are declining.

I wonder at the increased prejudice in fat hatred, it feels like the last bastion of the uncivilised to go.

I think from a left wing point of view that people just really hate and fear poverty so overreact to people they perceive as poorer than them.

SDTG, please don't get upset at the ridiculous comments on here. Put it this way, you don't know the true weight of some of the more unpleasant posters.

Obese people are often less likely to use NHS resources as a group because they worry about the reaction to their weight. Sadly, they may suffer from treatable conditions (that, believe it or not, are unrelated to their dress size) because of the fat shaming culture.

{{{hugs}}} for you SDTG - defo hide the thread. And take care of yourself.

police recorded racist incidents are declining

Don't imagine for one moment that that means actual racist incidents are declining. Most have never been recorded. The most vulnerable people, like asylum-seekers, over-stayers etc cannot report what happens to them.

OP, you said earlier that "obesity causes health problems", for many, many people (myself included) health problems cause obesity.

You can't "easily" lose weight when you are on high dose steroids, anti-depressants and your illness has caused you to be relatively inactive compared to your previously healthy and active lifestyle.

Some well-placed "shaming" is not the magic wand you seem to think it is.

Had you actually read the report and findings properly, you would realise that no one other than a reporter made any link between racism and obesity and which is worse. It was pointed out to you very early on in the thread but you chose to ignore it.

Rather than having a little smugfest and cheering your own (currently) fit and healthy life, you could perhaps spare a thought for all the fat fuckers out there (like me) who are apparently 'deliberately' rolling around the streets because we don't "simply" eat less, move more - maybe acknowledge that it is not that fucking simple?

STDG - posters that spout the sort of shit that is making you feel like this are not worth your tears.

Fuck them.

I stand with SDTG. I generally think of mumsnet as a very supportive place, and I have seen great things happen here when people have felt desperate about whatever situation they find themselves in.

Right now it feels like that support might only be available as long as the situation is not related to your weight. How very fucking depressing.

It's easy to lose weight.

So presumably those of us who can't are stupid/idle? How about Oprah Winfrey, which would you say she is, stupid or idle? She's overcome poverty, prejudice and abuse, but she's not able to truly sort her weight out once and for all.

How about Britney Spears? She has more reason than anyone on the planet to be thin from her lifestyle, because she is a very fit dancer doing a lot of shows, and also being in the media she'll get praised for being thin and slated for being fat. She can't do it either - like many of us, she has "thin" times and "fat" times but it's an ongoing struggle.

It's not automatically easy to lose weight or refrain from putting it on; if you are an endomorphic body type and/or have a slow metabolism, it's FUCKING HARD.

Those of you who are naturally thin, and/or able to keep your eating/weight under control, are LUCKY. Even if you work hard at it, you are still lucky.

I did a lot of drinking when I was a student, but now in my 40s I don't get on with drink very well, so I just have the odd glass of Cava. By the logic of the fat-shamers I could be ranting and raving about how evil and stupid alcoholics are, how they choose every time they take a drink, how they should fuck off and stop wasting the NHSs money, how even if they are in a bad state NOW it's their own fault that they got there etc. I don't, I just consider that's a 21st century problem that many people have but one I've been lucky enough to avoid.

STDG I'm fat and I'm great. So are you

For those insisting that obese=unhealthy (do you by extension believe slim=healthy ) - you may want to read this article - key paragraph

A 2013 meta-analysis by the National Center for Health Statistics looked at 97 studies covering nearly 3 million people and concluded that those with overweight BMIs were 6 percent less likely to die in a given year than those in the normal range. These results were even more pronounced for middle-aged and elderly people. This is known as the obesity paradox.

STDG, there are always people who lack empathy and compassion, it must be lovely to be so confident that nothing could ever happen to you just round the corner which could put you at the other side if the fence xxx

both are unacceptable

No prejudice is justifiable, people who shame and mock others for whatever reason are no different to each other.

People who have no hesitation to knowingly put someone into a vulnerable or defensive position are bullies, nothing more.

We are in the middle of an unprecedented time of plenty, in the sense that in the West the vast majority of people do not go hungry. In fact, high calorie food (like sugar) is plentiful as never before. And we know relatively little about how humans react to that physically, psychologically and socially. We know next to nothing about why physical reactions to plentiful food adn certain types of food differ so widely.

Against that background I have no idea why there is such a know-all tendency about obesity, unless it really is just people who are not overweight rushing to differentiate themselves from the stigmatised group by any means available.

Even if you don't have understanding, you could at least try for compassion. And separate 'body weight' from 'worth as a person'. I'm seriously marvellous. And podgy. It is possible.

Actually I think Mumsnet is fantastic at illustrating the point that there is massive fat prejudice.

People on Mumsnet are mostly lovely, educated, sympathetic and empathetic, wanting to raise their children well (or they wouldn't be seeking advice or chatting on a parenting site).

So the fact their is fat prejudice here proves how bad it is in society, proves it is the last slightly acceptable prejudice.

If it exists here where there is only minor cuntishness and much more intelligence then just think how bloody prejudiced the general public are!