To think Prejudice against fat people is NOT as bad as racism.

[goodnessgracious]

To think the article in the Times today claiming that prejudice against fat people is as bad as racism and that it is one of the last socially acceptable forms of prejudice is ridiculous.

Firstly, obesity is normally caused by an addiction and has health implications for the obese person and further implications on society as whole. How can this be compared to racism in any way?

Also, it is not the last socially acceptable form of prejudice because I believe society is just as (if not more) prejudiced against smokers, alcoholics and gamblers and all people with addictions which have costs toward society.

AIBU to think that although it is not right to be prejudice against obese people it is ridiculous to compare it to racism.

Copied article extract below...

"Prejudice against fat people as bad as racism, say scientists "Dr Jackson said that prejudice against overweight people pervaded society and needed to be challenged. “People think it’s one of the last socially acceptable forms of prejudice. You just have to look at the comments section on media reports on obesity to see that obese people are subjected to labelling and even abuse and attack.”

Now if there is one thing that can pretty much guarantee you end up an overweight adult it is embarking on a cycle of dieting as a child.

The question you should ask is why a child would need to embark on a cycle of dieting. What has the world come to where children are fed so much junk that they become obese and have to diet? Why are children allowed to spend so much time on computer games instead of running around and burning calories? How have we got to the point where school skirts are being sold with 50" waistbands in normal school shops next to the typical size ranges?

If my child needed to diet I would blame myself. I would feel very ashamed of myself and guilty that my child's life would probably become an endless circle of dieting and bingeing due to my inability to ensure they stayed a healthy size at a young age. My children do have treats, they are not macrobiotic fed children but they don't eat enough rubbish to become big enough to require a diet. Feeding children enough junk and sugary foods to make them obese is neglect IMO.

I agree with most of your points there mrs, but I was actually thinking of children who aren't overweight - no child should need to be on a diet. All too often obese children have seriously obese parents, who, for whatever reason aren't healthy-they understandably lead the same lifestyle, have the same mentality. But the slimmer parents, caught in a fear of fat, who abhor fat people, they pass that on to their children who can then start self- restricting with food. They are, to my mind, a step or generation away from being the families that are either very overweight or have eating disorders.

Yes, I agree. Children who are a healthy weight should not be on diets and shouldn't have to worry about weight issues (their own or anybody else's). In fact no child should have to worry about weight issues and dieting even if they are not a healthy weight. Parents can manage weight without children even knowing (due to changing meal ingredients and not buying sugary foods etc).
I think parents who pass on a fear of being fat are a very small minority of people, but the worry is that most who do pass on this fear probably think they are hiding their own fear of food very well and don't realise the harm done until it is too late.
Eating disorders come from both families with very slim parents (due to the reasons you mention) and overweight families but as you say: mainly due to fear of food and getting fat.
I don't think ritual weighing of children at school and then handing out letters is helpful either and can contribute to food and eating issues.

I have to admit to being very worried about the amount of children eating unhealthy diets and not just because of weight gain but also tooth decay and behavioural problems resulting from too much sugar and additives.

Apart from maybe that 'tiny minority' comment I'm right there with you Mrs blimey are we actually on the same page for a sec.

Greengrow, I notice that your 'healthy weight range for women of average height' doesn't necessarily follow BMI guidelines. I'm 5 foot 6, distinctly average, and according to the NHS BMI calculator, the upper end of the healthy weight range for that height is 11 stone 2 pounds. Do you think the NHS BMI guidelines are over-generous, then?

Average height is 5'4" (and a half) so 5'6" is taller than average, hence why you are within the healthy range at 5'6 and 11st 2lb.

Sleep- was just thinking about children getting messages about weight whilst I was out on the school run. I remembered an occasion when my youngest was two years old and he had been watching cbeebies and they had been discussing healthy diets and the food the body needs (I can't remember the exact programme but it was a pre school type animation of some description). We went shopping half an hour or so after the programme had finished and my two year old started pointing at people in the supermarket saying "there's a fat person, there's a fat person, there's another fat person etc etc". I was mortified and wanted the ground to swallow me up. I reckon lots of people assumed that I had given my son a message about fat people and food but I had never discussed weight or food with him and as a family we all ate the same meals everyday. I suppose messages about weight and issues with food can come from almost anywhere.

Undoubtedly, yes, these messages come from all over, but as parents we typically carry the most powerful ones - at least in kids' formative years. That's why I'm so passionate about trying to get people to recognise and stop habitually commenting on others' bodies (whatever shape), or all too frequently, parents criticising their own body ('I'm too fat/I shouldn't be eating this/I need to get back on the diet' style). Boycotting the likes of Now and Heat magazine with their 'circles of shame' and running commentary on celeb's imperfect body parts would also be a step in the right direction. Its only natural that very quickly, children turn this judgement and attitude on themselves . The emphasis should be on what amazing characteristics people have, the things bodies can do and how we can best look after them. Sounds so simple doesn't it!

5 foot 6 is above average height.

I just saw this article and thought of this thread - this is just the start of an article on the topic:
"As busy professionals it is all too easy to become distracted from our own compliance obligations under the Equality Act 2010 as both providers of services to the public and as employers. At the least, this risks professional embarrassment and at worst an exposure to liability and censure for breaching the Solicitors Regulation Authority’s (SRA) Code of Conduct.

If the European Court of Justice (CJEU) follows the advocate general’s recent opinion that obesity can amount to a disability, then compliance may just get that bit harder.

The advocate general’s non-binding opinion in the Danish case of Kaltoft held that where obesity reaches such a degree that it hinders participation in professional life, and in his opinion only extreme, severe or morbid obesity, being a BMI of over 40 could suffice, then this could amount to a disability.

With around 4 per cent of the UK’s population having a BMI of 40 or greater this would extend law firms’ obligations under the Equality Act 2010 both as service providers to clients and as employers."

I know what you are saying Greengrow. Im actually this weight (below 14) for the second time. I dont comfort eat and havent done for a long time. But being married to a man who doesnt even want to touch.......it was the only pleasure i got out of life for a long time.

Yes, for most people it is always much more complicated than just stopping themselves eating like one of my sons thinks who has easy control over it and perhaps may be a guess 30% of people in the country. For most others (those of us with the good genes who would have survived better in now non existent famines) there are a complex range of issues at play.

It sounds like the articles in the press have come about because of the case I quote just above - that the European Court is going to be looking at this issue of discrimination for those with very real obesity 40 BMI+ and the judgment is awaited. It would be a bit strange if you were 40 BMI then your employer might have to buy you bigger chairs, not sack you etc whereas if you were just a few stones overweight the same rules did not apply but I can see why the court might be tending in the initial opinion to that distinction..

Ah there seem to be articles from about 20 different law firms on it like www.wragge-law.com/insights/is-obesity-a-disability/ It is going to be a "huge" topic depending on which way the court decides. Usually the court following the formal Opinion I mention above.

A childcare worker in a European country already brought a case on unfair discrimination in the workplace and lost the case. If my memory serves me correctly the person was morbidly obese and the judge ruled that it wasn't unfair dismissal as the person was unable to meet even the most basic requirements such as tying children's shoelaces.
Legislation will not alter the fact that morbid obesity does prevent some people from doing some jobs properly and things like bigger chairs won't resolve the problem. I would hope that most decent employers would already provide things like bigger chairs when required but I wouldn't want employers to be forced into keeping morbidly obese staff who are unable to do their jobs properly due to excessive weight. I'm thinking about jobs which require lifting, climbing, caring for people with disabilities etc.

Why do overweight people insist on calling Slim people Skinny or Thin?

My daughter is what I would describe as Slim. She is the correct weight for her height, but she often has overweight friends referring to her as skinny bitch, or thin.

I think there IS jealousy involved towards Slim people (in some cases). They throw the word so as to insult.

Surely it's patently obvious that fat people who deride others for being slim are motivated by resentment?

I'm not sure why any one would even be insulted?
I can't remember ever being overtly insulted in that way but I think I might struggle not to laugh.

Little while ago I saw a bloke in the gym I'd not seen for around 5 years, back then I was very into strength training and deliberately kept my weight about 2 stone over what it is now.
He was muscular and fattish, now he looked like a beachball and it took me a while to reconise him. He said you've lost weight, a lot of weight with a what seemed like some shock and concern in his voice.

I made no comments about the change in him, it would have been rude.
Really I suppose it was rude of him but I didn't feel offended, I wondered if he felt embarrassed or perhaps he was fine about the change in him?

He probably meant it as a compliment. There seems to be a lot of interest in the EU Opinion as we wait for the European Court of come out with its decision. However it looks as it will only apply to those with a BMI over 40 so not likely to alter the law for most people.

Last year my son looked so thin he looked anorexic as he'd shot up to adult height and does not eat a lot. He is not anorexic. This summer he deliberately put on a stone as I said above and how his arms look normal (still thin) but not so bony it looks painful. teenagers have these growth spurts. I went from 6 to 9 stone in one year when I was 14 (from tiny gymnast child to normal woman). It was so fast.

However for adults there are different issues at play.

My late DH was overweight. When i met him I was 19,he 25 and he was a nice size NOT thin nor slim but certainly not fat.
He was hard working and a good husband and Dad...then he started getting stressed at work and depression set in....He was a proud 'mans man' who saw depression as a sign of weakness so against my advice did not seek help. Bills got left (and hidden) and he turned into a man I no longer knew, Sadly we separated when our children were 7 and 11. we still remained best friends for 30+ years. Because of the depression my DH sought comfort in food and along with his weight problems his health problems increased heart,diabetes, gout, arthritis and others. He lost his job and new (potential) employers did not see him as fit to work. This once proud man now walked with a stick and was the subject of public ridicule whenever he went out (think 25/27 stone) his mobility car was vandalised and the local yobs loved to make his life a misery tormenting him at night by banging on the windows etc...IF he was of a different race he could have contacted one of the many support groups...unfortunately weight watchers do not have a harassment support line. My DH used to laugh and say 'you gotta die of something..last year at the age of 56 he didn't just die of 'something' he died of lots of things- all weight related in a one bedroomed flat with empty food wrappers all around (we had never actually been in there before). People have died following racism and people have died from weight related illnesses the way I see it goodnessgracious it is still a human life lost and 1 life should not be any
less important than another. My children still miss their Father and I still miss my DH and my best mate.

Salsmum, what a tragic story, with hindsight do you think that he could have in any way escaped that fate?

Salsmum that is so sad . I have to say I find the comparison of fat prejudice and racism strange and unnecessary....

This TED talk is fantastic and covers lots of the things that have come up in this thread. Pretty much sums up what I have been trying to say .

salsmum im so sorry. That is absolutely heartbreaking. I absolutely agree with you.

There needs to be a support network . I think it would help immensely.

That is so sad. No one ever should mock others.

I mentioned ODDD above - obesity, depression, diabetes and dementia - all linked to sugar. Most depression clinics seek to get people eating no sugar or processed foods at all as all sugar does is give people a very short high and then a massive crash whereas a diet of only whole foods tends to help ensure the right balanced brain chemistry and seratonin levels - just most people including many mumsnetters seem to encourage themselves to have chocolate if they are upset or alcohl (sugar) - just about the worst things you can take if you are feeling fed up, guaranteed to keep you in a slough of despond for hours if not years.

Salsmum

I think people relate a fat person to someone who just overeats,has no respect for themselves-nor worthy of respect in return,sweaty,smelly etc..etc..the butt of ridicule and jokes but IF the person is overweight because of overeating and NOT medical condition/medication they are often seen as 'greedy' -many of us were not allowed to leave the table until our plates were cleared as children and with lots of 'all you can eat buffet' style restaurants popping up it can be a place where a person who lives alone can find company,warmth,cheap meal etc...He was taken ill on Tuesday and passed away on Thursday. He never regained conciousness and we were just about to turn off the life support and he slipped away...his major organs gave up. If you were to meet him you'd say he was happy,jolly with a GSOH...he hid his depression well. Suzannewithaplan the only way to have stopped this downward spiral would have been to have got help right at the beginning for his depression...but men as a rule do not as much as women and then it gets to the stage where there is NO losing the weight because it's gone too far and the body is too damaged. A week before he passed (jan) I lost my dear neighbour of 20 years my Aunt a week later and my Mother in November 2013 was definitely a bad year for us...but as the song says I'm still standing.