To think Prejudice against fat people is NOT as bad as racism.

[goodnessgracious]

To think the article in the Times today claiming that prejudice against fat people is as bad as racism and that it is one of the last socially acceptable forms of prejudice is ridiculous.

Firstly, obesity is normally caused by an addiction and has health implications for the obese person and further implications on society as whole. How can this be compared to racism in any way?

Also, it is not the last socially acceptable form of prejudice because I believe society is just as (if not more) prejudiced against smokers, alcoholics and gamblers and all people with addictions which have costs toward society.

AIBU to think that although it is not right to be prejudice against obese people it is ridiculous to compare it to racism.

Copied article extract below...

"Prejudice against fat people as bad as racism, say scientists "Dr Jackson said that prejudice against overweight people pervaded society and needed to be challenged. “People think it’s one of the last socially acceptable forms of prejudice. You just have to look at the comments section on media reports on obesity to see that obese people are subjected to labelling and even abuse and attack.”

Gosh no wonder the habitual cycle of comfort eating exists with attitudes like shown on this thread
:(
Some very lazy arguments

At 5ft 10in I am well within healthy at 11 stone btw and a size 12

How silly to say one weight (nine stone it appears) fits all.

If you were five foot nothing, that is probably overweight. IF you are six foot its probably seriously underweight.

I am five foot seven and three years ago I tipped the scales at 12 stone and a large size 14 and looked matronly (in my 50s). In eight months I lost 2 and a half stone and am now a size 10 (it takes ages to lose weight once you reach 50!)and have stayed there at nine and a half stone every since . I simply counted calories - and with a combination of eating less of them and using more I lost the weight. Sorry, I do not buy into any of the "diets" - the only reason they work is because all of them restrict calories in one way or another.

Really I think it is absurd that we are even having this debate. Eating too much and eating rubbish food will make you fat. End of. It is beyond obvious.

Well yes, of course it will (it's how I got fat, for one - although, as many have pointed out on this thread, there's more than one reason why we don't just, you know, not do it). However (again, as several people have tried to explain), that is not the only thing that will make you fat. For example I met a lovely lady recently who looked kind of bloated with a very round stomach. She was extremely miserable because she had never been so uncomfortably heavy in her life, before she got the tumour and started to take the steroids to shrink it before it could be operated on. She was actually eating very little because she had hardly any room in her stomach, what with the growth being in the way, and most types of food made her feel queasy. On appearances alone, going down the street, his woman would be judged in the same way as your average scoffer of burgers, and she certainly was costing the NHS a lot - which again she was painfully aware of, and, sadly, felt a little guilty about. The main thing she was looking forward to - well, the second thing, after finding out whether it was malignant or not - was getting back to her normal shape as soon as possible. You say these cases are the minority? Fortunately I believe they are. But how do you know which one you're looking at?

Oh but you're allowed to judge, because (insert random percentage here) of people could just decide not to be fat but don't. You don't know.

This morning I cycled 40 km then took the DCs for a walk for an hour. I weigh 20 stone. My brother, who is well within a normal weight for his height, was barely able to complete a 7km charity walk the other day. I think it's fair to say I'm fitter than him.

That would be extracting info from a single data point though. And that's what prejudice is.

As well as being fat, I am a highly educated, successful professional. I have been with my partner for almost two decades and have children. I have friends, am active and well-liked within my community. In the last two years, I have seen my GP twice, both times for a chest infection (nothing to do with my weight, however you want to spin it). I am many, many more things than fat, but that's the first thing that people see about me. Assuming that I am stupid, incapable, lazy or unhealthy because of my body mass is as prejudiced as assuming something about somebody because of apparent age, skin colour or any of the other, less acceptable prejudices.

I don't believe I have a single negative impact on society because of my weight, but I am treated differently because of it. Health professionals have the prejudicial view that I need to discuss my weight in relation to every single other health issue with which I present. It may not be the systematic brutality inherent in, say, slavery, but this has worn me down to the extent that I only go to see doctors when it is utterly unavoidable (I live outside the UK, so have to pay to have my actual health query ignored in favour of being put on the scales.) I know I'm not alone in this view. Also, unlike other addictions, I have never been offered, once, in a lifetime of obesity, a single piece of useful medical advice or treatment for my addiction.

So, on balance, I think it is one of the last socially acceptable prejudices. The only thing I have ever been unable to do because of my weight is fit into a pair on size 10 jeans. You, on the other hand, OP, seem unable to muster the slightest empathy for the pain your remarks cause.

“People think it’s one of the last socially acceptable forms of prejudice. You just have to look at the comments section on media reports on obesity to see that obese people are subjected to labelling and even abuse and attack.”

The OP wasn't being unreasonable in her thread title, but you can quite easily see by reading this sodding thread that the quotation from the scientist is spot on.

Nobody has said it is an acceptable form of prejudice. But it isn't even remotely comparable to racism and it certainly isn't the last socially acceptable form of prejudice. There are many forms of prejudice on a par with 'fattism', none of them are socially acceptable by the majority.

This morning I cycled 40 km then took the DCs for a walk for an hour. I weigh 20 stone.

Do you do this type of physical activity regularly? If so then how many calories are you consuming to maintain a weight of 20 stone? You obviously have a reasonable level of fitness to be able to cycle 40km but if you are doing that regularly and not consuming more than 2000 calories daily then it is hard to see why you weigh 20 stone. Have you had medical conditions ruled out?

What Missunreasonable said. Also, Neverfinish, what sort of cycling was it?!
Ok, that might sound daft, but a hard 20 miles up and down hills, or going at a fair pace on the roads, isn't the same as tootling along on a flat canal towpath at 10mph, or sitting on a stationary bike.

Of course all exercise is better than none, but i'm just saying that a one-off bike ride on the flat would not be an indicator of a fit person, whereas a daily 20 mile fast commute usually would.

Also, comparing walking to biking is comparing eggs to oranges if, say, the walk was 7km in the fells and the bike ride was a potter around a lake. Going slowly on a bike, at no resistance, you're not actually doing any work.
Hence the people in my spin class, who never put any resistance on, spend the session free wheeling, and then complain they're not losing weight.

Why when I have only ever said on this thread that 8 - 10 stone is a healthy weight for an average height woman would someone suggest I had said 9 stone is the right weight for every woman? That's a strange misrepresentation of what I and doctors say.

As I also said the waist measurement the NHS has found works very well is a good way to check if you are too heavy.

I have never said it was easy to change how you eat for life, get slimmer and stay a healthy weight. It is very hard for many people and not as simple as eating less.

I both eat too much and have a medical condition. And yes, I exercise like this regularly. I exercise for my physical and mental well-being, not to lose weight. I'm not worried about it, don't you worry either

My point is, it is only one aspect of my personality/appearance and I shouldn't have to explain or justify it, let alone worry about whether people will make assumptions about my character because of it.

And MrsJossNaylor, yours is exactly the kind of "socially acceptable" prejudice I'm talking about. You're implying I'm stupid and unfit. Cheers for that.

Being fat and fit or thin and unfit does not take away the concerns of obesity. Doctors should be able to speak. We need to protect people from abuse and unjust treatment, but we should not normalise obesity by fear of prejudice and not speaking out about risks. If a child was 20 stone would it be ok because he/ she could ride a bike? I would be very concerned if it was my child.

Whilst I would agree that alot of overweight people eat more than they need to, it should not be assumed that they always eat more than slim people. The reason I say this is because it is more to do with your metabolism. I am overweight but married to a 6'7" beanpole. My 2 girls are very tall and slim. My 11 year old is 5'8" with size 9 adult feet. She eats constantly and looks like a supermodel. We have the same meals (she snacks more) and yet she is slim and I am not. So....to lose weight, I need to eat less than my husband and children. I have never not been large.I am 6'1" with size 11 feet and was a large baby who got bigger and bigger....my mum blames the formula milk she fed me! I have a tall slim cousin (who has always been very 'fattist') and she managed to produce a 'chunky' daughter, despite feeding her kids lentils and not much else. Her husbands parents are both very large(husband Not) but it does seem to me that there is definitely a genetic predisposition to being large.

I'm not worried about it, don't you worry either

I'm not worried, I was just perplexed about how somebody who does a lot of regular exercise could be 20 stone.
I am aware that some very overweight people are capable of lengthy exercise sessions and that some slim people struggle to do any reasonable form of exercise. I don't think either of this scenarios are ideal though.

but it does seem to me that there is definitely a genetic predisposition to being large.

There have been many studies done on this and the NHS (and other sources) have identified that some people have certain genes that make them more likely to overeat and gain weight. However, it still boils down to the fact that the additional calorie consumption is what causes the weight gain. There is no evidence to state that two identically sized people eating the exact same food (and same quantities) and doing the same amount of exercise will gain weight at different rates due to genetic factors. There is however some evidence to suggest that some people are predisposed to eat more (whether they dispute that or not).

Just one NHS source is here, but there are lots more on the www

www.geneticseducation.nhs.uk/downloads/1872_The_genetics_of_obesity.pptx

Missunreasonable it is always possible to find research that supports what we think. A quick search re genetics produced lots of reports too.

Health > Health News > Obesity: lifestyle or genetics? MORE IN HEALTH NEWSright arrow
Obesity: lifestyle or genetics?
BY
FIONA BAKER
Parenting & pregnancy expert
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There’s a growing debate about whether obesity is fuelled by lifestyle or simply by genetics.

Obesity: lifestyle or genetics?

Obese people are often branded overeaters who don't exercise. But many obesity experts argue that being heavily overweight is a common genetic disorder – and in evolutionary terms, it is much more natural than being thin.

In fact, one Australian obesity expert puts this twist on the issue: having a tendency to be overweight may well be a sign of superior breeding.

Professor Lesley Campbell, of the Garvan Institute's Diabetes and Obesity Research Program, says: "It can be argued that people predisposed to store fat are the lucky ones and the scrawnies have defective genes.

"People who today may become obese were built to survive times of famine, to ensure the survival of the human race. The scrawny ones wouldn't have lived."

Campbell may be citing a popular, if controversial, evolutionary argument, but whether it is supported or not there is a growing body of research which suggests our genes play a significant role in our risk of becoming overweight or obese.

In the family way
It is believed that the vast majority of people – some researchers estimate as many as 80 per cent – have inherited genes that predispose them to storing fat for a possible upcoming famine.

With the latest Australian figures showing 61 per cent of adults are overweight or obese, it's a hypothesis that could have some merit.

Professor Paul Zimmet, an international diabetes and obesity expert from Baker IDI Heart and Diabetes Institute in Melbourne, says the hereditary factor is a major player in obesity.

Zimmet believes genetics are responsible for at least 50 per cent of all obesity cases. Like Campbell, he believes obesity is often a genetic disorder – along the lines of depression or high blood pressure – and that it needs to be treated as such.

"It's not just one gene responsible for the current obesity epidemic, but as many as 30, and we need to understand that so it's not a case of pointing a finger at an individual," he says.

"Society must stop being so judgmental without even knowing a person's background. Assuming someone is fat because they're lazy or eat too much is just plain nasty."

Sorry that did not copy and paste too well. What this means if true is that some of us have to work MUCH harder to maintain a healthy weight than others and therefore people should not be so judgemental about people who are more overweight than them.My weight has been a lifetime struggle for me and the only time I was what most people would consider a healthy weight I was actually making myself sick after family meals. Just don't be too quick to judge others and don't assume we are all the same. Wouldn't life be boring if we were?

Yes verb family but the article you posted doesn't state that fat people are not consuming more calories than slimmer people. It doesn't negate the NHS articles argument (which I posted) that states that the genetic factor is linked to over eating.
It is an interesting topic because if fatter people were really more likely to gain weight regardless of calorie consumption then there would be no market for bariatric surgery. Bariatric surgery works because it restricts the amount of calories that somebody can consume. Surgery doesn't work for those people who liquidise mars bars and Big Macs after bariatric surgery (because they are still consuming too many calories).
If people were genuinely genetically obese then no level of surgical intervention would reverse the problem. But magically the majority of obese people lose lots of weight once they have had bariatric surgery and reduced their calorie intake.
Surgery hasn't changed their calorie burning genetics but it has forced them (in the non mars bar liquidising group) to restrict their calorie intake.

So all these people who are genetically prepositioned to being large

Where were they before the obesity epidemic started?

I mean before 2 car families/the boom in takeaway outlets/the arrival of the internet/when there were only 3 channels on the TV/kids literally played out all day and always walked to school?

Because if they existed, they were a very rare sight.

There are so many different factors at work, all playing their part aren't there

• generally our diet is much heavier in processed, sugar laden (by which I also mean starchy carb) food, not helped by the low-fat message. A diet high in sugar plays havoc with blood sugar and hormones and your body will tell you to eat, regardless of the calories it has ingested. In addition, food is cheap and generally the quality is poor. If you aren't providing your body with the necessary nutrients it will keep shouting hungry, regardless of calories consumed - in this sense all calories are not equal.

• addiction; I think most people would agree that addictive personalities exist. Sugar has been proven to be addictive for some people. I don't believe that you become addicted to sugar the first time you try it (as with heroin for example), but eat a sugar heavy diet for long enough and for some people that will happen...do it from childhood and that likelihood must be increased.

• as pp's (Suzanne? has pointed out), once you become very obese/addicted then your hormones are thrown out of whack and the system that tells you when you are hungry/full stop working properly. It's just not as simple as deciding to not eat as it is if you are a healthy weight - your body is telling you that you are hungry and that message is nigh on impossible to ignore

• medication plays a huge role - steroids as have been mentioned but also anti-depressants, which impact upon appetite and weight, the consumption of which has increased massively in the last decade or so

• lifestyle - simple decrease in the lack of activity as you say Worra. And kids model what they see their parents doing, once the cycle of crap diet and inactivity starts then it spirals through entire families and of course increases exponentially generation after generation.

• Food is and should be something to enjoy, but for many people it represents an emotional crutch, for so many reasons, none of them wrong or indicative of weakness, greed, lack of moral fibre in the eater. Many of us have some way of dealing with difficult emotions/stress or relaxing and soothing ourselves. For many it is a couple of glasses of wine in the evening - no more right or wrong than a giant bar of chocolate and a bag of crisps but other people don't usually see the effect of the wine and judge/draw conclusions about the person's character from that.

• the whole diet industry and media message that we should 'treat' ourselves with food (but also look like a size 6 supermodel - Nicole Scherzinger and her orgasmic yoghurt anyone )? also screws up many people's relationship with food and body and is also to blame IMO.

but also look like a size 6 supermodel - Nicole Scherzinger and her orgasmic yoghurt anyone

Nicole Sherzinger has written many articles about her battles with food and the fact that she has suffered from bulimia. I think it is wrong that any food company uses her to advertise its products. It doesn't send a healthy message. Plus she is such a terrible actress in those adverts that anybody who takes it seriously and thinks they will look like her if the eat one of those orgasmic yoghurts needs to have a reality check.

Yes, I do point that out frequently Sleep!
Leptin resistance is garnering more attention of late, no doubt there are many more as yet undiscovered factors at work to influence the behaviors which causes obesity.

I agree Sleepwhenidie, there are so many different factors that make up the obesity epidemic.

We can all talk it inside out (and we often do ) but there comes a time when as individuals, people need to stop talking and start acting.

It's great when someone finally gains an understanding of why they are obese, but if they want to change, it's important not to use that understanding as an excuse.

All the talking in the world won't shift the weight

Probably just as well because I talk so much, I'd end up like a skeleton!

If food companies cared about healthy messages Miss, there would be no food adverts at all, given that the producers of veg, fruit, meat, dairy and fish don't bother now and it's difficult to differentiate those products