To think Prejudice against fat people is NOT as bad as racism.

[goodnessgracious]

To think the article in the Times today claiming that prejudice against fat people is as bad as racism and that it is one of the last socially acceptable forms of prejudice is ridiculous.

Firstly, obesity is normally caused by an addiction and has health implications for the obese person and further implications on society as whole. How can this be compared to racism in any way?

Also, it is not the last socially acceptable form of prejudice because I believe society is just as (if not more) prejudiced against smokers, alcoholics and gamblers and all people with addictions which have costs toward society.

AIBU to think that although it is not right to be prejudice against obese people it is ridiculous to compare it to racism.

Copied article extract below...

"Prejudice against fat people as bad as racism, say scientists "Dr Jackson said that prejudice against overweight people pervaded society and needed to be challenged. “People think it’s one of the last socially acceptable forms of prejudice. You just have to look at the comments section on media reports on obesity to see that obese people are subjected to labelling and even abuse and attack.”

I can't see anyone on this thread who has said that fat shaming is as bad as racism.

Kindly read the OP I was responding to. Particularly where it says:

"Prejudice against fat people as bad as racism, say scientists"

You're welcome.

The OP mentioned an article, and that she was disgusted with the viewpoint mentioned in said article. Nobody actually on this thread said that they agreed with it either.

Bless your little precious heart.

I was agreeing with the OP and saying the people were just as bad as the Thin Privilege people.

"This is as bad as that "Thin Privilege" crap going around. People need to stop letting Tumblr kids write articles for reputable websites."

See? :)

(See I can be patronising and PA too! I just prefer not to, lest it makes me seem like a twat...)

Yeah, but you don't even understand what you're trying to be patronizing about. Here, this might help. :)

PS. It's patronizing not patroniSing, sweetie. :)

I'd just like to address a point made up thread. A poster said that 'shaming' had been an effective tactic in reducing smoking rates. I disagree with this ,it was education that was effective, combined with the development of aids (such as nicotine patches) that made withdrawal easier. I'm speaking as a 30/day smoker who quit 10 years ago. The indoors smoking ban did help as well, not because of shame but because it made it easier not to smoke for at least part of the day.
I think that is what is needed to reduce obesity - firstly more education and secondly practical steps that make it easier for people to eat less but more nutritious food and to exercise more.
To answer the OP, of course racism is worse than fat shaming but all kinds of abuse and bullying are wrong.

Erm, Bulbasaur - if you're going to be patronising and correct someone on their spelling, get it right. The usual spelling in the UK is with an s, not a z (ex-news editor speaking here...)

Bulbasaur, patronising can actually be spelled either way.

HTH

X post with MrsJossNaylor!

I have read a few of these threads and never post because both sides have valid arguments i think but i think its time that i did.

I wake up every day with the thought that i need to lose weight i really do - sometimes it makes me cry because i literally torture myself with guilt about being 6 stone overweight.

I have tried every diet known to man - CBT, hypnotism was my latest venture and probably the only way left for me is surgery. In my 20's i used to be married to a really emotionally abusive man who also enjoyed torturing me about my size waving magazines like Elle in front of me and telling me this is how a real woman should look. I decided after him to go to Uni, have a damn good time and accept myself for my size and make the best of who and what i am.

I got married again this time to a guy who loves me for me and had two more children ( i had three already ) and was diagnosed with diabetes type two for which i require insulin. This is the reason i am so angry with myself for not losing the weight and being healthy enough because of my smallest two ( aged 21 months and 5 - my other girls are virtually grown up now being 17, 19 and 22 ) needing me for a lot longer than the girls will.

Its really, really hard and i know exactly why i am like this ... cupboards have always had to be full - i don't feel secure unless the fridge and cupboards are full and i have always been the type of person that loves to cook and feed other people ( although in my 20's i didn't like eating in front of others) Not everyone is fat just because that is a choice they make - i would have been thin years ago if it were that easy.

When i was 7 my parents went away ( crap 70's parents ) to Europe to contract and make loads of money - they sent me to live with my half uncle and his wife and 2 kids on a fairly impoverished council estate with my parents sending them regular money for my keep. Not a penny was spent on me and over the two years i was there i got thinner and thinner and have never been so hungry in my life ...

Their children got free school dinners and because my parents nowhere near qualified i got nothing - and was sent to school with nothing so i know how it feels to look in the school canteen feeling starving with nothing to eat and knowing that when i got home there would be a fight over the crust of the loaf that made the toast for dinner because it equated to the biggest bit. Finally and thankfully social services stepped in because i suppose my parents just didn't notice or didn't want to notice and they had to come back and take care of me again.

I got fat - because i was scared of where the next meal was coming from - then i got thin and took up smoking in my teens spending all my lunch money on fags - then i got fat again at 20 in my first pregnancy and have lost and gained a few stone here and there (lost a stone again in the last two months) but never seem to be able to stay away from the 'comfort' of being fat.

Sorry this is so long but i always wanted to post this, I am not ashamed for being fat, im attractive and have people around me that love me but have been unable to let go of the 7 year old girl who was starved for two years of her life. It is a choice i suppose but one i feel i have no control over - i am used to being judged and usually step in with a fatty joke before anyone else does just so people know i am perfectly aware of my size.

Some really shitty and nasty comments on this thread and others has made me finally post why i am fat and why whilst i don't think it is akin to rasicm at all, fat shaming is not healthy and will not work the way stopping smoking shaming does - you don't have to be around cigarettes but you always have to sadly be around food.

((((((((rosieposey)))))))

I've worked in rehab and addictions work and it has always seemed like one of the hardest things to beat. A heroin addict can change their life, move, get away from friends, change everything and rarely if ever come into contact with heroin again if they choose to. Even alcohol is around less frequently than food.

Someone with a compulsion towards food has to be in contact with food every day, make food choices every day, each meal is a fight. Advertising, family, friends, work, celebrations, socialising, everything is food-related.

Kindness and understanding cost nothing.

So you'll agree with me then that the line you quoted from my post, where I said nobody ON THIS THREAD agrees with the article either is actually correct then, yes?

Except you're implying I said they were agreeing with it. Unless we're just stating obvious facts for no reason? Should I bring up the sky is blue?

Erm, Bulbasaur - if you're going to be patronising and correct someone on their spelling, get it right. The usual spelling in the UK is with an s, not a z (ex-news editor speaking here...)

Google red line has failed me.

Rosieposey

The thing is for me personally it's not a food compulsion anymore, i can and do lose weight ( as well as put it on) i can do 1200 calories per day and manage fine as it is all about mindset - thats how i lost my 1st 4lbs these last two months its just that whenever i have any problems i always use food as a crutch and unfortunately across the course of the last 23 years there have been one or two issues as there always is with life.

No addiction is simple - i would alter what i say in the 1st paragraph, i have times when i am addicted and times when i am perfectly happy eating normal healthy amounts, oh and before anyone thinks i go mainlining mars bars i eat really healthily as do my DC's who aren't overweight i just eat too much of it at times to lose weight. (but my downfall is curry!)

I just hate reading these threads and the fat shaming makes me angry because it's really not that simple otherwise everyone would be slim. I have no greater impetus than my babies to keep alive and thats why i beat myself up about being overweight because it seems i cannot do it even for them (whom i love more than anything else in the world :-( )

Can I claim smoker shaming then if people criticise me for smoking? It's not my fault I smoke, I'm not like those perfect non smokers. I smoke because I'm depressed. You have no proof I'm automatically unhealthy because I'm a smoker. This is discrimination.

Kitten said:
MehsMum that's a long term, wide reaching effect which may or may not affect someone. Not comparable to someone breathing in cigarette smoke, and certainly not justification for fat shaming.
Hm. I don't have asthma so breathing in a dose of fag smoke at the bus stop probably only has a minor impact on my longterm health, in the same way that seeing overweight people normalises being overweight in slow slow stages (which was my comment you were objecting to). And being obese means that, on average, a person is more likely to suffer medical problems. That's not fat shaming. That's the way things are.

Kitten also said, later in the same post:
It's nothing to do with "health implications" and everything to do with "this fat person daring to exist in my presence offends me, I am slim and therefore everyone else should be".
Hm again. I don't think everyone else should be slim. I'm not as slim as I'd like to be (and it's bloody hard getting off and keeping off even a stone, so I sympathise with dieting friends as never did in my genuinely skinny twenties) Nor is DH skinny, but I'm happy to look at him. But I look at very overweight friends and relations and wonder about the quality of their lives, longterm.

And finally Kitten said:
But there have been comments very much along the lines of "I'm not homophobic but I don't like my kids seeing two men kissing in case it normalises it"
Which I think was referring to my comment about how seeing overweight people and being around overweight people normalises being overweight. The thing is, being gay isn't a choice (I have known enough gay men who have gone through various versions of hell for their sexuality, and in at least one case, I am 100% sure that if he could have changed it, he would have done.) But being overweight is often - not always - a choice, and recognising that you are overweight will be influenced by what you see around you. And as I said above, to accept that being seriously overweight has bad implications for your longterm health is not fat shaming. It's reality.

Kitten, I'm sorry that I seem to have had rather a go at you, but I want to make the point that I'm not fat shaming, and that I don't think fat shaming is acceptable.

PS Rosie, you posted while I was writing my essay.
I have huge respect for you for losing that much weight in that amount of time. It's taken me a month to shift the grand total of 1lb (of about 5lb put on on holiday).

And I understand completely about curry.

Being on the receiving end of prejudice and hate is hideous for the individual regardless of whether they are singled out for their size, race, disability or anything else which identifies them as different and causes negative reaction.

Some people are more sensitive and vulnerable than others, the impact of discrimination will depend on their emotional state and support system. A person who is upset for being abused, bullied and belittled is not going to be less upset because they're targeted for their size rather than skin colour.

Nastiness should never be justified and victims shouldn't have their experiences demeaned because they're in a less sympathised category. Treat people as people, not labels.

'Smoker shaming' (if it even exists, which I dispute) is nothing like fat shaming. People don't shout abuse at smokers in the street, or snigger and stare if they go for a run, or equate it with ugliness or laziness. No body gets called 'a smoky bitch' as a routine insult.

However, obesity is costing us all, just a smoking does. However, the colour of someone's skin does not.

Smokers often get called 'disgusting', 'smelly' and 'vile' both in RL and on MN.

I've also never seen or heard anyone have an ounce of sympathy towards a pregnant mother who smokes. They tend to get called irresponsible/awful/selfish etc.

So I think it definitely does exist, though it's nowhere near as common as fat shaming seems to be.

I'm not sure if that's because there are more fat people and less smokers nowadays, who knows?

When I lived in Africa I had men queuing up to offer my parents herds of cows to marry me.

sounds barbaric

Didn't the Times Article go on to say that showing prejudice against fat people actually made them fatter whereas if they were shown compassion they were more likely to have a go at losing some weight.

I have to say I find myself thinking "no wonder she is obese" if I see a fat person in the street stuffing a McDonalds or some such. I would not actually say anything of course, but I would think it.

The truth (IMO) is that just because your consider prejudice against fat people less than prejudice against black people does make you less of a twat.

I don't know why these threads get started.

As soon as somoneone says that they think that people being overweight is costing the nhs a lot of money (just like smoking and drinking does) then there are cries of Fat Shaming!

I don't see smokers crying Smoker Shaming! --maybe I should start one-

If you want to get treated with disgust and prejudice, just try being a Smoker!
I suffered filthy looks and comments for 20 years (before I finally gave up) but I never let it bother me.

I think smokers must be made of tougher stuff!

Another - that's just a natural human reaction, Fat people know why they are fat and you are only thinking what they must already know.
What you were thinking was the reason i wouldn't eat in front of anybody in my 20's but truthfully speaking i became one of the fat and proud brigade in my 30's because i honestly thought i couldn't change the way i am. It's only now with the health implications kicking in in my 40's that i am on the diet yo yo wagon again.

If it wasn't for my health i would honestly be happy and accepting of who i am - fat is not healthy, i know that and so does everybody else (the same as being too thin isn't healthy either) but actually looking fat is ok - not everybody has to look the same, again i say for me anyway its just about the health implications now because making yourself feel shit for being fat for 23 years isn't good for any human being.

Meh - losing just over a stone when i had over 7 to go wasn't too bad and was fairly quick because of having such a lot to lose - i think the most i managed to lose was 5 stone about 9 years ago but never quite got to the holy grail of 10 stone. I was in the Zone and felt like doing it ( life going well and lots of positives) i have slipped off the wagon again but seem to be maintaining for the time being so that'll do until the next stone or so hopefully.

My two eldest beautiful girls are mixed race, their dad went back to the states when they were very small so i raised them in Devon till they were 9 or so when we moved near to London. We moved there partially because i got a place at Uni and also because even in a city ( albeit in Devon) they experienced racism - my eldest had an injury from a random brick being thrown at her head in a park because of the colour of her skin. Comparing fattism to racism is silly but both opinions come from ignorance and it seems that people fail to look beyond the stereotypes on both counts.