To really hate OBEM USA?

[VanGogh]

Don't get me wrong, beautiful safe deliveries. Wonderful.

I had OBEM set up to series record and now I see my magic box thing has recorded the USA series too.

How different can labour and delivery be in two developed countries? All I seem to see is women on their backs, epidurals, "you can't deliver without your OBGYN" it seems so... So... Well, medical I guess. I dislike it. All I see is drips and close monitoring and beds.

Why???

Please tell me I'm not alone?

I've given birth twice in the NHS, both vaginally, once with every bit of pain relief in the known world given to me (with no argument or hesitation at all), once with just gas & air because it was too fast (and, I grudgingly admit, easy) for anything else.

My American MIL basically thinks I might as well have given birth under a hedge, because I didn't see any doctors, and the whole thing was midwife-led both times. I'm not sure she grasps that midwives have any medical training at all - it's possible she thought I was attended by something between a doula and a cleaning lady. She'd probably have lost her mind if I had just stayed at home with DD2 and popped her out on the bed (which in retrospect would have been perfectly do-able, but we weren't to know that at the time).

I've given birth three times on the NHS - all pretty positive experiences, I just don't talk about them much, I think people who have complaints talk more.

1 - elective caesarian, a very awkward presentation (footling Breech); straight forward and I recovered quickly.
2 - VBAC with strong epidural, long labour and very close to another CS, so on very strong epidural. I gave birth in the operating theatre on the last push before CS. Only slight complaint, the midwife who dealt with me wasn't even supposed to be working that day, she'd just popped in for a pay slip.
3 - very nearly an unplanned homebirth attended by paramedics - actually in the hospital attended by the head of midwifery - very superior, wonderful midwife. You couldn't pay for better(probably not even as good). Only gas and air, there wasn't time for an epidural.

Well having 4 babies here in England the American experiences sound fantastic.

I don't know what it's like to give birth in a rural cottage hospital type area or a midwife led unit.

My experiences were of a hugely busy unit, midwives I had never met before, some nice some vile! No question of getting the epidurals I asked for all 4 times no feeling of empowerent in the slightest. No choice no voice.

It really really pisses me off when people equate giving birth without major drugs as natural or somehow what all womem want! It isn't about what other womem think it's about what the birthing mother wants.

There is very little choice here and the threads on poor maternity care are endless.

Give me the American experience any time. It sounds far far better.

The care described does sound great in the US seeing a doc/midwife you know, private room etc - I can't complain about the treatment I had during the delivery of my DS in the UK birthing room, lovely midwife but the after care was terrible.

I watched this documentary a little while a go which is quite interesting. It's called 'The Business of Being Born' and was done by Ricky Lake about the medicalisation of birth in America. I completely agree with a women's right to choose but I think what she is saying is that what is being pushed (excuse the pun) is a method that's more convenient for the hospitals and gains them the most money.

I don't see what is wrong with the US system if mothers feel in general more listened to, cared for and generally happier with their birth. The UK system, yes, is universal, free and generally more biased towards the natural approach, however you do seem to hear more horror stories and mothers left traumatised because their wishes were batted away or the staff on hand was too overworked. I did have a good experience in the UK but am aware it could also have been horrific. As many said, no one gets a medal for doing it the hard way, and the ultimate prize is a healthy baby and mum, not an epic birth story.

Ds1 was born with the nhs.

Ds2 started with care with American care on base, I didn't like it, it was to medical and felt like I was being treated like I had a disease so I went back to using nhs for the remainder and for the birth of ds2

"the policy is always to minimise risk, so more monitoring..."

That's one of the big points, though, for me. The policy results from an immature understanding of what actually constitutes the biggest risks to mother and baby. More intervention does NOT always equal lower risk.

They only thing you can guarantee it WILL do is jack the cost up sky-high. Though again, there is no perfect, linear correlation between increased health-care spending and increased positive outcomes.

I think it depends on your primary view ov what be.

For me it was primarily me and my babies survive but to go through the birth process with as much empathy from staff that I already know. and as little pain as possible for me.

Thankfully my babies survived but the rest was absolutely not offered here on the NHS.

The after care was appalling and if I wasn't a qualified nurse it would have caused me far greater problems.

It's not good here at all.

I totally agree that women should choose how to give birth be that more or less medical intervention, BUT I absolutely loathed the USA version of the tv show OBEM.

Unlike the UK version that seems to follow a range of stories in a fairly sensitive way the USA episodes I watched were just edited to make women look stupid and naive if they went for anything but the on bed monitoring epidural 'choice'. For example in one episode they showed a couple who said they hoped to not have an epidural. Cue loads of midwives and doctors edited in a montage saying 'oh women sometimes think they'd won't but they always do in the end'. When the woman said she was in pain in labour an epidural was (seemingly) immediately suggested and she accepted and the story was definitely meant to make you think 'ha ha told you so'.

The other even worse one was a slightly hippy alternative couple with a doula who were doing hypno birth type techniques. They were portrayed as comic relief with 'kooky' music played over their segments. The woman was getting relief from the shower and they overly edited her / her partner / her doula saying 'Lets get back in the shower' over and over, interspersed with comedy eye rolls from the midwife. It was AWFUL and so offensive.

I think the problem is as much to do with American TV editing as American attitudes to birth though! Gordon's kitchen nightmares is equally repetitive and over edited.

I'm not sure if this has been said before, but USA has a much higher maternal mortality rate than it should as a first world country, that invests a great deal of money into childbirth care. Greater than most of the European countries.

www.arhp.org/publications-and-resources/contraception-journal/march-2011

I found this and am looking at the WHO data which suggests the same. Various opinions on why across the web but the majority conclude its down to unnecessary intervention/ Caesarian.

But then it would be interesting to compare levels of PTSD and PND in postnatal women between the two countries. My NHS 'care' during birth and postnatally left me with some serious mental health problems that I struggled to get recognised and fixed.

puntasticusername - put much better than I did above. Absolutely agree.

I have to say that my experience of being on forums/FB pages with people who have the same chronic health problems as me but based in the USA, I am appreciative of what we have here! Overmedicalised is not the word - it is fucking bonkers the unnecessary amount of medical treatment some people are getting.

Sorry, slightly off topic!

I think what I'd really like is the UK approach (midwives, more emphasis on giving natural birth a go) with the US levels of money applied.

However I realise that probably wouldn't happen as it's the US funding system which leads to US birth being medicalised.

Agree the US version of the show is a bit annoying.

Birth is a major procedure, why wouldn't it be medicalised? Why is that bad? Things like access to a nurse, clean shower, good food are basics not ways aavailabile in UK. Midwife shortstaff etc makes aftercare bad in the UK.

The use of this word "natural" is irritating. What you mean is vaginal birth/no pain relief, yes?
All birth is natural. Just some require (or choose) intervention.

Ooh I remember that episode with the doula & the hot shower! And all the bitchy midwives out at the desk rolling their eyes. You were made to think they were nutters. Mind you, her labour was taking AGES & there's no doubt she was getting too tired. They HATED the doula being there, it seemed. She was def pegged as an Interfering Hippy.

Interesting that in most of the US stories on here Pitocin seems to be a standard thing. Almost taken for granted. That was a big complaint in the Ricki Lake doc also, I remember.

bree yes "natural" means vaginal and with less intervention. Don't really see why that's irratating. "natural" does not equal "better".

I'd take the American way any time, especially the aftercare.

I'd have absolutely hated a medicalised birth. It would have been my worst nightmare.
I have no complaints about my 3 births in the NHS - quick and easy with minimal assistance and I was able to recover very quickly at home.
However I can see why other people might prefer or need a different approach and that's fine for them.

I guess I just perceive it as more "listen to the doctor" rather than listen to your body

Tell you what, I knew fuck all about giving birth that first time and neither did my body - I was much happier listening to the doctor!

What's Pitocin? Is it what we call Syntocinon?

I've had the medical and non-medical versions of UK births. DC1 was induction/epidural etc and I can't fault the care I had - although things were a little hairy at times as the little bugger got stuck. But I hated it. I felt such a massive disconnect from the baby. I was completely pain-free, having a snooze and suddenly this baby appeared from nowhere. The bond between us took a long time to come, sadly, although I did my utmost to care for her and show her affection.

DC2 was a completely natural birth, although in a midwife-led centre attached to a hospital and not the home birth I'd planned (erring on the side of caution due to minor issue). I know pain isn't for everyone, but I needed it. It was completely bearable pain-wise - I've had canulas put in that hurt more - and I knew her. When I saw her for the first time we looked into each other's eyes and I said 'oh, hello you'. Instant bond.

I know plenty of women who've had epidurals/c sections and had instant rushes of love too, so it's clearly just a personal thing for me. I need the pain to appreciate the gain .

I am glad to hear of all the positive experiences those of you in the US have had - but that is directly linked to the fact that you have decent Health Insurance. Keep in mind that many people in the US do not have good or even any health insurance and in these cases they do not get private rooms, lovely food, water births or even the option of midwifes.

My mil was a labor and delivery nurse in inner city Chicago and the stories she tells of women from the projects coming in to give birth will break your heart its not a nice positive experience for them.

Then there is the cost involved - a co-worker just gave birth she has health insurance but she was still presented with a invoice for $15,000 and she only stayed in the hospital for 1 night.

The experience in the US may appear on the surface to be positive but as with most things here the mighty $$$ is what drives the experience.

yes "natural" means vaginal and with less intervention. Don't really see why that's irratating. "natural" does not equal "better".

It's not actually called a "natural birth". It's called a "Vaginal Birth" (with or without medical intervention or a "CS" and all forms of birthing methods are natural!

all forms of birthing methods are natural

Except the birth scene in Alien.

Ohhh yea that's not natural at all.. Ohhh, the birthing method in "V" definitely wasn't natural, for those old enough to remember "V"!