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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

who do you think IBU?

55 replies

dancingwithmyselfandthecat · 08/09/2014 14:14

I am friends with a hetrosexual couple who have been together for the last six years and now live together. They are early/mid thirties

The man has always been clear he doesn't want children. Probably not clear enough when you take into account that having children is the "usual" setting and people assume that you will change your mind when you get older, but clear nonetheless.

The woman has always wanted marriage and children. She assumed that he would come around on the basis that most men in their late 20s don't go around talking about having children but most do later. (I am paraphrasing her view). Over the last year, she has been dropping increasingly heavy hints.

A couple of nights ago she made a joke about "helping" him along with an "accidental" pregnancy. (I don't know exactly what she said as I wasn't there).

The man reacted very badly. He told her that he unequivocally didn't want children, would not sleep with her without a condom as well as proof of another contraceptive and that if she did become pregnant he would provide no more support than the bare financial minimum.

Woman walked out, because she can't stay with a man who doesn't trust her, and is sleeping in my spare room.

Obviously this is none of my business, and I've seen enough break ups to keep my views to myself, but I'm interested who you think is BU. I think woman is - but then I have very strong views about tricking a man into getting you pregnant, and I've seen a scenario where it didn't end well (seperation, abortion). DH thinks man is BU because he should have spelled out that "I don't want children" means "never ever ever" a long time ago.

OP posts:
Fudgeface123 · 08/09/2014 14:16

I think woman is too, she went ahead with the relationship knowing he didn't want children. He's done nothing wrong by not changing his mind and you'll get people coming on here saying he should do it to make her happy? Why though, he wouldn't be happy.

CharlieSaysAlwaysTellYourMummy · 08/09/2014 14:16

Tricky! I actually neither one is BU. But the relationship is doomed.

ChiefBillyNacho · 08/09/2014 14:17

Neither. It's a really sad, complex and difficult situation to be faced with.

5Foot5 · 08/09/2014 14:17

I agree with you. Deliberately getting "accidentally" pregnant is indefensible. Even if she was joking I can see why he reacted badly.

seasavage · 08/09/2014 14:22

I think she is unreasonable. He'd said not, her view is (even if often true) very dismissive of his stated intention and surely she would have picked up from more in depth conversations that his view was inflexible. Plus. I don't think joking about accidentally bringing a child into the world shows a reasonable point of view. He may have suddenly questioned his trust for her. A shame. But he appears to be a literal sort of guy (on this information). He may have realised/ thought she meant it. And based on her opinion. Maybe she does a little bit?

Andrewofgg · 08/09/2014 14:23

She is; but I don't see any future for them together.

LiverpoolLou · 08/09/2014 14:26

They are both being unreasonable for getting involved with someone he knows would want children when he knows he doesn't and vice versa.

She is being incredibly unreasonable in making jokes about 'accidentally' falling pregnant and his reaction is entirely understandable. Her comments about not being with someone who doesn't trust her are ridiculous. Of course he doesn't trust her, she effectively told him that she wasn't trustworthy.

And I agree with the pp who said the relationship is doomed.

phantomnamechanger · 08/09/2014 14:29

she IBU, but a prime example of "he didn't mean it, I'll change his mind/talk him round/reassure him he can do it" that happens oh so many times

absolutely not on to trick/fall pg deliberately, and she is a fine one now to moan that he doesn't trust her having joked like that!

it's amazing how many couples with totally differing views DO stay together though, each thinking the other will come round to their way of thinking - IME it never ends well!

If I was him, I would be booking myself in for the snip! Once he had done that, he would soon find out whether she was with him because she wanted him above everything else, or whether she was just hoping for him to change his mind/an accident to happen.

WhoDaresWins · 08/09/2014 14:29

She is. He's made it clear from the start he doesn't want children, you said so yourself. How much clearer should he have been? She gambled on him changing his mind and she's lost that gamble. Sad for her but she needs to gather herself up and move along, plenty of time left to find someone else.

poolomoomon · 08/09/2014 14:30

She is. I could sympathise a little bit more if she also didn't want children when they got together and over time has changed her mind and was hoping he had too... But knowing she always wanted to have children and he definitely didn't ever, she should never have entered into the relationship. It was always going to be doomed.

It would be a massive no-no for a lot of people that do want children when they start dating and the person makes it clear they never want to have kids. It's a deal breaker and should have been her deal breaker.

however · 08/09/2014 14:34

It doesn't really matter who is being unreasonable. If it's that important to both of them, they should split.

For what it's worth, If I was the man I'd get a vasectomy, and if I was the woman I can't hand on heart say I wouldn't try to get pregnant. I imagine it's pretty awful to to be faced with a childless life when it was never in your plan and you always assumed it was a decent possibility.

SirChenjin · 08/09/2014 14:42

Neither is being unreasonable as such. He doesn't want children (or doesn't want them with her), she does want children and probably naively thought that children would feature in their future together. The choices as I see it are - one of them either relents and they decide to stay together regardless, or they split up.

I have seen couples in the same boat, and usually the bloke does 'come around' eventually once the baby appears (providing they are a long term, otherwise committed couple), but it's a big risk and not advisable - it's far from ideal. They really need to sit down and talk seriously once the dust has settled, and decide where they go from here.

MrsTerryPratchett · 08/09/2014 15:29

I've seen men 'come round' but generally after they've left and met someone else that they have children with .

She may have been joking about the accidental pregnancy. She may, more likely, have been testing the waters. I think she can consider them tested now.

DoJo · 08/09/2014 15:40

Neither of them ABU to have their own opinions, but she IBU to keep 'dropping increasingly heavy hints' and making that kind of joke, particularly in front of other people. To be honest, if they are unable to sit down and have a proper conversation about this and respect each others' positions, then it is probably for the best that they split. His reaction suggests that he REALLY doesn't trust her when it comes to this issue, so I would imagine there isn't much future for them even if they could get past her pressuring him.

whois · 08/09/2014 15:40

I don't think either is being U.

Most men in their 20s say they don't want children and most do change their mind.

Maybe a few years ago it wasn't such an issue for the woman and it's praying on her mind more and more.

Really sad situation actually, assuming everything else between them is ok. The relationship is almost certainly going to fail because of this.

Betcha they break up, man then gets with younger woman. Gives it another 5 years and decided oh yeah he DOES actually want children and has them with new woman.

whois · 08/09/2014 15:40

Or maybe less, maybe 2 or 3 years.

Mouthfulofquiz · 08/09/2014 15:43

They are both being unreasonable - but I can sort of understand why she had hoped he would change his mind. Unfortunately she will have to end it and move on I think. I think what he said in response to her daft suggestion was quite rash and callous and showed his true colours...

cailindana · 08/09/2014 15:43

She is BU. He said he didn't want children. If she thought he wasn't serious then she should have clarified that first. To trick him into having a child would be incredibly unfair. He said clearly what he wanted, she didn't listen and then tried to undermine him.

cailindana · 08/09/2014 15:45

IMO if you know you want children, getting together with a guy who says he doesn't want them in the hopes he'll change his mind is absolute madness.

19lottie82 · 08/09/2014 15:47

I think the Woman is DBU.

You said

"DH thinks man is BU because he should have spelled out that "I don't want children" means "never ever ever" a long time ago.", however, chances are he prob did, the woman might have just been keeping her head in the sand in the hope that he might change his mind. Just because he put his viewpoint across more subtly with third parties, it doesn't mean he did the same with his DP.

Preciousbane · 08/09/2014 15:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MarchEliza · 08/09/2014 15:55

It's a bit of a sad story. She gambled that he would change his mind (not unreasonable - it does happen) and that gamble has not paid off. He is not unreasonably to stick to what he has always maintained.

Sadly whois is right, this often pans out with the original couple separating - the man getting together with a younger partner and deciding that NOW he wants children. :(

TheVeryThing · 08/09/2014 16:01

It's hardly a question of either one of them being unreasonable. Does it really matter who is 'in the wrong'?
Surely the point is that they both want completely different things?
It seems to be that communication between them is poor, with fault on both sides.
It's better for her to know now where she stands while she has time to have children with someone else.

AlpacaMyBags · 08/09/2014 16:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AbbieHoffmansAfro · 08/09/2014 16:09

I have a long-standing male friend who has been very clear over the years with his successive partners that he didn't want children (and I mean, really adamant) and a surprising number have chosen not to hear it.

Both of them have drifted along without talking about this, which was silly, and they each have to own their share of responsibility for ending up here. The accidental pregnancy joke/threat was awful and I don't think his reaction was excessive.