To be so frustrated and depressed by my neighbourhood

[Slowdownsally]

I posted the other day about my bully of a neighbour who was accosting other people demanding to know if they were the ones who had reported her to social services for neglecting her children.

I look out my window just now to see: a seven year old riding a scooter up and down the street with no parents in sight, I can hear a toddler crying in tiredness while his parents and friends drink in the streets and there's a whole other group of them also in their front gardens drinking whilst their small children play in the road.

Granted there's no real traffic to speak of, but it just seems so wrong.

There's at least four separate households where the parents couldn't give a stuff about their kids: they are only interested in themselves. The children are left out all the time and in the evenings they just sit outside everyone else's front doors drinking and chatting with their children playing in the street til 11pm.

Is this really what people do? I feel like I'm losing my compass as to what is normal parenting when I see this all the time. It won't stop when they are back at school either as none of them work.

Aibu to think this is wrong and to be frustrated that they all think this is normal parenting?

Gobbling - I think firmer sanctions I.e eviction just moves the problem on to some other neighbourhood. Punitive fines for people who have no money also just exacerbate their problems.

Educational grants with free childcare do work in some cases though.

Monday - what you've written is true, but there are fewer obligations on private developers now as they haggle down the volume of 106 social housing. There are two private estates being built here at present with over 500 homes - only 8 will go to social housing - that is a disgrace.

My estate is new and there are 45 houses a ten are shared ownership and thes rest are local authority. It's segregation of sorts as all the houses are on the same location.

All us rough lot have the crap houses outside the new estate.

I read a disturbing blog article the other day in which the writer claimed that a certain housing authority was planning to get tenants of a particular estate consisting of large blocks of flats, to do odd jobs like cleaning communal areas, gardening etc... instead of paying rent because the rent arrears were so bad. It was claimed many of the tenants were struggling due to benefit cuts etc and a lack of work in the community.

Work for your house.

Work-house.

Workhouse.

Walkonthewildside- If you mean me when you said Lukey you need to a) get the name right and b) RTFT- what you claim I said is not what I have said at all. I grew up in a council house. Most of my family did. We never claimed benefits. My parents both worked . My mum had low paid jobs but she was proud of working and contributing. They would never have dreamed of sitting drinking in the streets and neglecting me and not supporting me at the local comp.

But I do think the OP is describing a group in society that exists because of what we have encouraged with benefits, and feels entitled to be financed for doing nothing and do not accept any responsibility for supporting themselves.

I totally agree that wages are too low. Taxes are too low for those who are very rich. The government would do better to subsidise some building of homes and communities and reducing length of time they can stay on benefits which would make people like this work. I am in no way talking about just anyone who claims benefits - but near Sunderland where I work there are young , healthy men and women in their late 20s and early 30s who have never worked by choice.

Work for your house.
workhouse

MrsW we all work for our houses?

Maybe they would take more pride if they had to actually keep it clean, maybe that would help to keep children under control?

We take pride in our houses because we work for them and want to preserve them, maybe having an active role in their environment would have same effect?

lulu

what would many of these people do though? have many industries not been taken away? and now other menial jobs are taken over by EU who work for very little?

Gobbolino yes we do all work for our houses. That's not the same as what a workhouse suggests and you know it.

With benefits being stopped, very little work which is paying a living wage, we're a tiny step away from shoving people into "accommodation centres" or some such shite and making them work full days for fuck all really.

Mrswinnebago - that is awful. Really fucking bad.

I can only see it causing more issues for people trying to get work and wage deflation.

I agree with more housing lulu - it really is essential and I agree with higher taxes on the rich too.

I work ft and can barely keep my head above water. It's deeply frustrating because I am trying to save for a mortgage deposit, but I can't build up savings because wages are too low and also I will lose tax credits if I have savings over a certain level. I need the TC to pay for childcare so I can work. Catch 22 all round.

I've had better opportunities than most of my neighbours - university education and a previously good career, but bad luck in losing my home when pregnant left me homeless. I am ever grateful that I got housed at all, but it's extremely hard clawing your way back up.

I havent read the full thread since I last commented near the start, but I just feel to say not all council estates are like this you will always get the odd family where ever you are but some are really nice. I grew up on an horrible estate lived there since I was 3 until 20 its not until Mum moved to a nice quiet street you notice the difference.

Where I am now on my part of the estate the culdesac has around 20 properties I would say majority are bought and most of the residents are workers even in the council owned properties I can think of 2 families only that I would say describe the OPs neighbours so I would say we are really lucky, its a pretty close nit street the neighbours do not put up with any crap first sign of trouble a group of them go to the council or police its seemed to have kerbed problems from one of the familys atleast.

Was visiting SIL today she lives on a really rough estate and was lads on quads racing each other. Round the corner as we were driving off we noticed a group of about 8 young men and women just sat on awall outside some houses drinking, there was a few kids about on bikes and scooters presuming they were with the drinkers. Reminded me of benefit street

yes but your idea of odd jobs has nothing about it that smacks of a dickension work house and YOU know it

cleaning communal areas, gardening

My DH would love to potter around doing that rather than go into a soul destroying job every day, which has had a massive pay cut due to CC bringing us to a very low income.

We would both be much happier if he could do something light and be outdoors doing cleaning and gardening and be able to keep the roof over our heards.

Oh you're looking at the small picture *Gobbolino" have you no imagination! Can't you see that next they'd be saying "We're offering all people on benefits the chance to re-train...we're pairing them with industries who will pay US their rent and a small benefit to the worker."

I don't think the gardeners who work for the council would be very happy about losing their jobs.

And what exactly is wrong with kids playing out on bikes and scooters?

There are lots of young people up here Not in Employment Education or Training from 18 yrs onwards (NEET). My cousin works for what was Connexions as a careers' advisor. She says there are hundreds of apprenticeships but they will not do them. They don't turn up to appointments with her, don't turn up to interviews she sets up. She will even take them but when she turns up at their house they are in bed, or won't answer the door or their mum says they have gone out. She spends hours every week trying to do this. Last week, she had 13 appointments in a row with 18-20 yr olds who just did not turn up- many have done it countless times.

And yet, as I know because we have had some at our school, what happens is they go on from them to jobs or college courses, having learned skills, got some qualifications, been trained, gained confidence.

They just want more money that the £110 a week it is- they would rather do nothing. I would rather be occupied learning something that might give me a chance.

Had you passed a big house with a big garden with people drinking wine while the kids played you wouldn't' bat an eyelid. Lots of good old fashioned snobbery on this thread.

I realise how lucky I am - I don't have children but live in a small close with lots of 2 bedroom houses, some rented, some owned & some social housing.

The parents in this close all work hard to pay their rent & mortgage.

They are working class, all keep their kids under control & supervised when playing out. The parents sometimes have parties in their back gardens but only occasionally at weekends (as they are working so much)& then they keep their children with them, they then finish parties early & the children still go to bed early.

The children who live here are all really young toddlers or just starting school age - it's nice to see families who really care about their children.

In my dad's road (again a mix of rented, owned & social housing) many families let their little toddlers play out until late and don't supervise them. The parents do get drunk just like in the OP. I wish my dad could move to be honest because he has problems with the kids playing in his garden, he's too scared to kick them out because he lives alone.

Walk - young kids on scoots at 11pm with no parental supervision - you missed a few details there.

Big country house with a garden would be private property, away from neighbours who might be disturbed and not all day and all night ad nauseum.

Not snobbery on my part. I see parents from this group every day. I am describing what I see and the attitudes they bring to their child's school. I also see totally decent parents who live streets away from them and are scared of them.

Also my dad's road has really fast traffic running through it - I wouldn't let my child play on that road if I had one because it's quite dangerous with lots of parked cars so cars on the road find it hard to see the toddlers - I think it needs speed bumps really.

The gardens in his road are big enough for children to play in - they don't need to be out on the street at all hours especially when they have nursery or school to go to.
I'm talking about really small children aged 2 - 5 who are unkempt and unsupervised.
It makes me angry because I really want a child and then there are parents who have them and don't really give a shit!!

Walk on the wild side I get the impression that you have no first hand knowledge of what is being discussed here. Kids playing out is one thing. 3 year olds roaming the streets at all hours is another. No one commenting on their experiences seems to be living in some ivory tower. OP is a lone parent living in social housing, same as me. Maybe you should get back to your A level sociology homework and let the grown ups talk.

Something I've noticed in my own country (I'm American) is that in the 80's and early 90's there was a big push for everyone to go to college and become a doctor or run a company or something.

That's not realistic for everyone. And that's not snobbery, and I'm not talking intelligence or class. My dad is one of the best and most clever people I know and he is a skilled tradesman, definitely working class.

But all of a sudden, there was this notion that any kind of manual labor, no matter how skilled, was wrong. There were posters in guidance counselor's offices saying "work smart, not hard." And that's ridiculous. We need laborers and plumbers and craftsmen and we need to value that kind of work. Where's the shame in being a bricklayer? The world needs them!

But a lot of those jobs are gone, along with factory work, because so many of our goods are now made elsewhere.

When I go without working or fall out of a routine when I'm a SAHM, I get mildly depressed. Spend more time in my sweatpants. Sit on the internet while the house gets untidy. And that's just over summer hols! I can't imagine generations of no work, nothing to feel proud of, never imagining anything better, never feeling like you "owned" anything. No wonder!

And I'm not saying that all kids from poorer areas need to grow up to be laborers...I know many people from all walks of life who would benefit from decent-paying "working class" jobs. They'd be good at it.

And while I'm at it , where are the classes that teach practical life skills? All this pressure to beat other countries at math leads to cutting out budgeting, home ec, "industrial arts" (what we always called "shop class")... and a huge section of kids from ALL classes are missing out. No one learns the basics of cooking or basic diy in school anymore. If their parents don't teach them, they won't learn.

I'm babbling now, I know. I live in a small Midwestern town where it is still possible to graduate high school and get a job farming or mining or in a factory that will pay enough for a house and a good life. People take pride in their houses and gardens because they are theirs and they worked for them. They don't have that beaten down sense that I've seen in cities.

CheerfulYank you are the voice of reason.....

I have noticed the same thing; a lot of people expect to be handed 'the good life' on a plate.....

Not everyone of course before someone jumps up...

Also some people can't seem to grasp that benefits etc are not 'paid'
By the government; they come from the taxes of hardworking people.... It's not a bottomless pit of money.

When I was a young teen we did paper rounds, babysitting, potato picking- anything we could to earn our own money..... & I will encourage my DC to do the same, my oldest is 11 and does chores to earn pocket money.... Hard to explain when her peers get everything for doing nothing.....

Think I am going off on a tangent, but I can feel the shift starting about 20 years ago.... All this celeb culture too..... Something for doing not an awful lot.... Don't know what the answer is...

I wholeheartedly agree with you cheerful yank - it's so apparent in rural England where farms are bigger yet more automated requiring less staff.

Wages are pitifully low and there's not much to aspire to.

It has become so unreachable to get a mortgage on a low income with house price inflation, so it's hard to aspire to home ownership too.