Who is right? Child seeing animal die.

[Ifyourawizardwhydouwearglasses]

Interesting one maybe? This came up today and I'm not sure if my immediate reaction was correct.

DH and 2 year old DS were outside. We live on a farm and I can see the stock yard from the house.
Every morning DS goes with DH to help feed etc.

This morning they'd been out an hour or so and come back into the yard. Suddenly I heard a gunshot. I looked out and DH had shot a sick (dying) calf. DS was watching.

When they came in I said that I didn't think it had been appropriate for DS to watch the calf being shot and could he not do it again.
DH said that he disagreed, it's better for DS to learn about this kind of thing from an early age, rather than be sheltered until he's 10 and then get a shock.
I can see his point, but wondered what others thought?

I still don't know what I think. DS was spectacularly un-bothered btw.

Less happy about him shooting the animal in front of your DS than your DS seeing the animal die, iyswim.

At 2, Ds1 was very blasé about this sort of thing (don't worry, I didn't shoot anything in front of him!) but by 4 he was getting upset by it. I mean things like animals dying in films, pets dying etc. I used Lion King to explain what death meant, and the circle of life etc. which was fine then, but as he got more understanding and more fear, it upset him more. There were children's films he would watch happily as a 2 and 3yo that he refused to look at when 4 and 5 because he found them more upsetting (ok he probably shouldn't have watched them at any of those ages, I'm talking things like Willow, Dark Crystal etc).

I do think your DH should have a talk with your DS to explain that the guns are only used at very special times, and only by Daddy - try to limit the reasons why your DS might think it would be ok to have a gun and shoot something.

Less happy about him shooting the animal in front of your DS than your DS seeing the animal die, iyswim.

At 2, Ds1 was very blasé about this sort of thing (don't worry, I didn't shoot anything in front of him!) but by 4 he was getting upset by it. I mean things like animals dying in films, pets dying etc. I used Lion King to explain what death meant, and the circle of life etc. which was fine then, but as he got more understanding and more fear, it upset him more. There were children's films he would watch happily as a 2 and 3yo that he refused to look at when 4 and 5 because he found them more upsetting (ok he probably shouldn't have watched them at any of those ages, I'm talking things like Willow, Dark Crystal etc).

I do think your DH should have a talk with your DS to explain that the guns are only used at very special times, and only by Daddy - try to limit the reasons why your DS might think it would be ok to have a gun and shoot something.

Farming family here.
It's part and parcel. I understand your reaction - not being of farming stock myself, I still find it hard to get used to this stuff - but it's best if your son adjusts to these things from a younger age, rather than finding out all the difficult/uncomfortable bits when he's older.

DH always says you can't shelter them, or sanitise farming too much, as it some point their ideals will inevitably be broken, and it will be much harder to deal with then.

That said, I do feel the need to protect DCs from some of the worst. e.g. Do not look in any old feed sacks during lambing time. Now that will lead to trauma.....

I agree with your DH.

I don't agree with children being around guns, so while I don't agree that the method by which the animal died was suitable for a child to see, in principle I think it's ok for a child to see a dying animal be killed.

I think if your DH is going to do this, then it needs to be accompanied by ongoing conversations telling your child how dangerous guns are and that they can only be used in certain circumstance by certain people etc, and that will need to be constantly and strongly reinforced throughout his childhood.

I'm with MrsWinnibago - I don't know if at 2 he would be fully cogniscent about the link between the dead calf and the gun. In the - albeit unlikely - event he ever got hold of a gun he might remember this as something Daddy once used and so endanger himself by playing with it. I don't really have an issue with children watching an animal be killed - my two watched a cat pounce and kill a mouse at a farm the other week (tame) - just seeing dangerous equipment being used.

I agree with your DH but I do think some explanation should have been given in an age appropriate way. Also agree with talking about the dangers of guns etc.

I'm with your DH too I'm afraid.

I'm with your dh. Are all the people on here who object vegetarian? Children should know where their food comes from, and if a child grows up on a farm then animals dying will be a regular part of life. I agree that if something is introduced early its much less traumatic than giving them a sanitised version until some arbitrary age then springing it on them

Can't even remember when the "never ever ever touch the gun cabinet" lessons started. Even if we had know where the keys were, the absolute unwavering conviction that we were never allowed to touch the thing meant that we wouldn't have opened it. Ever.

It's a thing, along with the slurry pits and the tractors that is instilled in farm children from the year dot. So bcse OP didn't specify that this conversation has taken place, don't assume that it hasn't.

Old feed sacks yy. Especially with schmallenberg this year. Not nice.

It's fine.

As an aside, a really important part of gun safety with children is getting the child to truly understand that they kill. It gives weight to the others.

I also grew up on the farm and am with your DH. Death is part of life and when an animal is suffering with no likelihood of recovery using the swiftest method to end this situation.
The gun cabinet was something never to be touched kept in the office which we could only go in if invited. As a teenager I was taught how to care for and use a gun correctly.
Others mentioning slurry puts etc, do any of you remember those horrifically graphic early '80s films about children and farm accidents that were used to scare us children falling on to PTO shafts, into slurry pits and drinking substances. Those films had no sugar coating at all and were very clear that if you did not do what you were told on a farm there was a really high chance of a very painful death.

Responsible gun ownership and use is fine, even when there are children living in the same house.

I'm with your DH.

I couldn't have even told you where my dad's gun cabinet was, or the separate ammunition case (both locked), it just wasn't something we were curious about. There were far more dangerous things to be aware of (sheep dip, machinery, dams, fire, tiger snakes).

I'm with your DH too. If kids in that environment see stuff from the earliest age it is normalised and won't bother them when they get older. My Dad was a commercial fisherman for a time and we all spent time as kids on the boat and dealing with the catch. As a result none of us are bothered about the icky stuff like gutting fish, etc. However we're all a bit squeamish about meat and couldn't deal with a gift of a brace of partridge a couple of years ago. I'm all for it and have made sure DS is exposed to the realities of country pursuits (we're in the boondocks) so he doesn't grow up like me.

lonecat yep! Apaches, bloody terrifying, especially the way it tricked you into thinking you were actually watching a kids film! It is on YouTube I think if you are feeling brave!

I think it's fine that he did that if he explained in an age appropriate way what was going on. I do not think children should be shielded from death, and it is an important part of farming/family business. Obviously in this environment gun safety needs to be reinforced from a very young age.

BUT, I'm not sure I'd feel it was safe to be supervising a 2yo while also carrying/using a gun (anymore than if you were manouvering heavy machinery etc), a seconds distraction or a sudden unexpected movement by the child and you have a tragedy. A five year old who understands the dangers a bit better and can be relied upon to stand there and don't touch anything, is a different matter. 2 just seems too demanding/unpredictable.

Fine with letting children see an animal die in a natural way -we recently 'saved' a pigeon from the canal, but it was too late and it died, but it was peaceful and I thought a good thing for them to see- but Id have more qualms with a shot and no explanation. But that could be because I've never seen an animal be shot, so I don't know how distressing it would be. I'm guessing if your son wasn't affected there wasn't the thrashing around and noises Id have imagined being involved with shooting an animal? If it was matter of fact, quick and the animal wasn't distressed, that would make a big difference to me.

I remember the PI films, v scary.

I'm with the DH, it's part and parcel of farming life, living in the country effects a different relationship with animals. And it's good for children to grow up with an understanding of where their food really comes from.

As an aside, both DDs know how to shoot a rifle, they fully respect guns, and knowing how to behave round them, and handle them correctly is far better than being ignorant of them if you grow up round them. We don't have guns in the house anymore, but when we did it was safer for them to know what to not do around them.

I agree with your DH but NOT because I think it's in any way acceptable to "normalise" stock farming or needless slaughter.

IMO if it's okay to use the raising and slaughter of animals as the means of providing for your son it's okay AFAIAC for your son to see what happens in the process of providing his next pair of shoes or his next toy.

I believe that slaughterhouses should have glass walls.

You can't sanitise farming and you shouldn't try to. That's just one moral fuck-up too far.

girlwiththegruffalotattoo - "Are all the people on here who object vegetarian?"

Vegan. :)

I'm not from a farming family, and am a vegetarian, and I agree with your DH.

YouDontDoHumanity, then I would totally respect if you held the view that children shouldn't see animals being killed. My point was that I find it incredibly hypocritical when people are happy to use animals for food and clothing yet don't want to think about the reality of where they come from and how they get to your table.

Farmers would do well to remember their children are not farmers, they are small people who've yet to make up their minds about what they want to be when they're older.

I would absolutely not be happy for my children to have witnessed something potentially disturbing when it could have easily been avoided. And if the reasons for it have not been explained to your children, won't it look like a random act of violence?

Obviously if a pig has suffocated some of her piglets that would be different. That's nature in action and should not be hidden. Your husband should have dropped off the children when he returned to the house to fetch his gun.

My children are used to nature, death, roadkill etc, but I think them witnessing a large animal being shot would be way too brutal, and they are older than two years.

An understanding, acceptance, and gradual learning doesn't require such a graphic illustration so young.