to actually feel sorry for the driver of the car? WARNING- upsetting video.

[ToThePark]

Ok, so I've been a wimp and name changed in case I get totally flamed.

www.suffolk.police.uk/newsandevents/newsstories/2014/september/hardhittingvideolaunched.aspx

The motorcyclist was travelling at 100mph past a busy junction. I watched this video and thought, as a car driver, this could easily happen to me. What an horrific thing to have on your conscience.

What if it had been a child crossing?

We live close to an A road; it's single-carriageway, with lots of straight stretches and 90-degree bends, and is much loved by bikers, because apparently these two things are a fairly rare thing. Also, we're in one of the least-populated parts of England, so the round is pretty free-flowing most of the time.

Anyway, the speeds at which some bikers go along that road are mind-boggling, you can go from having nothing in your rear-view mirror to having a bike looming very close in what feels like no time. On top of this, some car drivers and bike riders seem to think that speed limits and careful overtaking are options, not obligations, so now I'll meander all around the country lanes just to avoid the A road.

It just needs road users to be aware of other road users (and pedestrians), and to be sensible, but maybe that's too much to hope for. I hope this video helps, but I'm not sure it will...

I come from a long line of bikers.

General consensus amongst family and friends is that doing 97mph on a notoriously shit bit of road (that we are all very familiar with) whilst wearing a helmet-cam to capture your exploits is never going to end well.

The driver obviously bears some responsibility too because he cut it fine. But it is not easy to judge speed and distance when someone is barrelling towards you at nearly 100mph.

Hopefully this horrible event reminds bikers and motorists alike what can happen in the event of shit driving/riding.
And Norfok CC need to sort the bloody awful A47 out.

It's a trunk road therefore responsibility of the Highways Agency IIRC

steff13 - how would the US feel about someone travelling at nearly 100 mph on a public road?

General consensus amongst family and friends is that doing 97mph on a notoriously shit bit of road (that we are all very familiar with) whilst wearing a helmet-cam to capture your exploits is never going to end well - says it all.

Goringbit - I'm wondering whether I live near you, because we have the same problems and the roads & population sound similar

These days I'm mostly a pedestrian and I 'Think Bike' all the time because otherwise I'd be in the cemetery.

I know lots of people amble across roads like zombies but I don't.

It's always pedal cyclists who jump crossings when the green light is in my favour. But when crossing in stalled traffic - which is allowed - I do it carefully and peer round cars for motorcyclists who are filtering - also allowed. They aren't a problem in city traffic.

However the man who died was doing 97mph. I am sad that he died but it was his fault. MaryZ summed it up best for me:

Look, I will ask a very simple question. Did the turning car hit the car the bike had just overtaken?

I have watched the start of the video several more times today and have felt increasingly angry about this twattish riding. At that speed there is no way motorcyclist would have been able to avoid any hazard or unexpected event. People who speed like that leave it up to the rest of us to negotiate round them. Before he died, he was fucking deadly to all the other road users.

Is it just me or has the vid/article in the original link gone?

What's with the helmetcams anyway?

Some riders/drivers use them (as was mentioned up thread) to "show off" on youtube.

Motorcyclists use helmet cams often because car drivers don't see the bikes and knock them off. It helps with insurance. I want one. I have a dash cam in my car already.
Not every biker is a show off/arsehole that wants the world and his wife watching his/her speeding/showing off on YouTube . Believe it or not; some of us are sensible and responsible road users even on two wheels!

Although it's hard not to feel sorry for the motorcyclist in the circumstances he was riding at speeds of 97mph and had contempt for the lives for everyone else on that road. He didn't care about putting everyone else at risk as long as he got his own thrills.

How on earth could this have been considered the car driver's fault?

The car driver turned in front of an on-coming vehicle. Whether the biker was speeding or not, the driver shouldn't have turned in front of him. As I said previously, the biker's actions don't negate the driver's responsibility to make sure he had a clear path to turn.

The article seems to be gone now; were any charges filed against the car driver?

On reflection, I have learned quite a bit from this video, but I suspect it's not what Suffolk Police intended:

1. Some motorcyclists are a danger to themselves and others.

2)If you are involved in an accident with one of these motorcyclists, admit nothing to the police until you have lawyered-up, otherwise you will be blamed for not seeing something the Bionic Man would have difficulty spotting.

Everyone knows that factual recall of stressful situations, particularly ones where events occur rapidly, is very poor. I think the car driver took the blame because he was utterly distraught and guilt-ridden.

The car driver was charged with death by careless driving. He pleaded guilty to the charge so wasn't tried, and the evidence wasn't tested in court. The court's role in it was purely to sentence him.

Who knows what the result would've been had it gone to trial, bearing in mind the split of opinion on here, as I imagine a jury would have had the same debate.

Solo

"Some riders" was in my post.

I agree that some also use them to show the bad riding/driving habits of others, but some that use them for that purpose only show what puts them (the cam user) in a good light and not the situation from the start.

steff13 he was banned from driving for 18 months, plus fined and 130 hours unpaid work.

There's another video doing the rounds, the rider had a cam mounted on his fuel tank. He records him and a friend riding on the motorway. His speedo goes up to 127 mph. His friend comes acropper, is clipped by a car and there's a road accident. The video was used in evidence. The filming driver was banned for speeding.

I already linked to that video, a few posts back.

Two more bikers were killed on Norfolk roads (B1136)yesterday.
No other vehicles were involved. They were travelling in opposite directions when it happened.

Yet again a dodgy bit of road with a history of fatalities caused by speeding/poor visibility.

Slow down people FFS.

Interestingly I had a nose at bikers forums yesterday to see whether they were discussing the roads near us (they were - they have a bikers name - these are rural, country, roads, 2 lane, but windy - they should not - imo - be driven fast). In that forum they were defending Mr 150mph, saying it's safer to drive faster, he was probably 'only' doing 90mph or so and complaining about average speed cameras ruining the fun of the twisty road. The were discussing ways to get round the speed cameras (such as some flippy thing that flipped up over the numberplate) Honestly, I know not all bikers are like that - but the blokes (all blokes) on that forum who ride near me (bastards) should not be allowed near the roads. They're a bloody menace to other road users.

One chap on the forum said you shouldn't drive over the speed limit or without insurance and was banned for being a troll.

Looking at the collision several times (I know it's morbid but I really wanted to see how it happened) I'm not sure that most car drivers would have done any better at seeing the bike/judging the speed. One moment the bike isn't there, half a second later there is a fatal accident. The driver had already started to make the right turn before the bike was anywhere nearby- if the bike had been travelling below speed limit he wouldn't have arrived at the same spot as the car - he'd have been at least 60 feet away, and the collision would not have occurred.

One thing I have taken from this is if I at all see a motorbike coming I will not try and rush a turn into or out of a side street as it could be speeding, it is very difficult to judge the speed of an approaching motorbike, and it is much safer to just let it go past.

As said the driver was charged, and sentenced for the offence. It is immeterial whether anyone on here thinks it was the bikers fault.

As death by careless driving is normally a custodial sentence, then the mitigation of speeding and irresponsibility of the motorcyclist will have been taken into account in reducing the punishment for the offence.

As for saying a Jury may have decided differently, the driver will have received legal advice from both a solicitor and barrister before making a plea. The plea will have been influenced by their view of all the facts and witness evidience. They would have had to be convinced that the jury would find him guilty before advising on a ple.

As with many things on here, we have not seen all the evidence, just the video and the accompanying narrative, to try and say that the driver shouldn't have pleaded is nonsense, as it is to try an put all the blame on him.

It's tragic, I have huge sympathies for the driver, and for the motorcyclist. I ride a bike, and when on it think all drivers are idiots, when in the car think all bikers are loons and keep an extra eye out for them. If there is anything to come form this, it is to think about other road users of all types when out, and expect them to do the wrong thing.

I ride a bike, and when on it think all drivers are idiots, when in the car think all bikers are loons and keep an extra eye out for them. If there is anything to come form this, it is to think about other road users of all types when out, and expect them to do the wrong thing

Exactly - that's what I will take from it. I really watched the video to see if I can improve my road safety.

The driver pleaded guilty. That doesn't mean he was guilty.

The lawyer would have advised him something like this:

(a) if you plead guilty, you will get a driving ban and 80% chance of a community sentence, and a 20% chance of a prison sentence.
(b) if you plead not guilty, there's a 60% chance you will be found guilty, and a 40% chance not guilty. If you are found guilty, there is an 80% chance you go to prison, and a 20% chance of a prison sentence.

Obviously those numbers are made up, but a guilty plea does not mean the person would have been found guilty before a jury, or even that the driver believe he WAS guilty.