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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to actually feel sorry for the driver of the car? WARNING- upsetting video.

496 replies

ToThePark · 04/09/2014 21:55

Ok, so I've been a wimp and name changed in case I get totally flamed.

www.suffolk.police.uk/newsandevents/newsstories/2014/september/hardhittingvideolaunched.aspx

The motorcyclist was travelling at 100mph past a busy junction. I watched this video and thought, as a car driver, this could easily happen to me. What an horrific thing to have on your conscience.

What if it had been a child crossing?

OP posts:
edamsavestheday · 05/09/2014 13:54

Thanks jimjams and cultural, that's interesting about position as well as shape.

I was shocked when I started having driving lessons at how easy it would be to fail to see a biker/cyclist. As a pedestrian, I had no idea.

saintlyjimjams · 05/09/2014 13:57

This video compares a 50mph (car) crash with a 100mph one. You can see the forces the biker chose to subject himself to (and also that had he hit anyone at that speed, or a passenger in the car he would have killed them).

If he'd come off at 50mph he may have survived.

saintlyjimjams · 05/09/2014 13:58

whoops forgot the link

www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/100-mph-crash.htm

KneeQuestion · 05/09/2014 13:59

Where are you getting it from that the driver 'didn't look'?

The report I saw said that the driver 'didn't see' the motorbiike, which is not the same thing

Can you please clarify? Are you saying they were looking somewhere else altogether, or what?

The driver apparently didn't see the bike or the car behind it, the cars behind that driver did see both bike and car.

He didn't say he saw the bike, but misjudged its speed [which is what many here have alluded to] and took a chance, he said he did not see it at all.

It is not that much of a stretch to assume that that is because he didn't look. If he had looked he would have seen it like the other car drivers did.

I expect he would have been looking towards the direction he wanted to travel [right in wood lane]

OwlCapone · 05/09/2014 14:01

Your speed affect how hard you hit the ground though - so even if you say the car driver was entirely at fault for the collision - the force with which he hit the ground was entirely the fault of the biker.

He would also have continued travelling forward at about the same speed his bike was going wouldn't he?

OwlCapone · 05/09/2014 14:02

The driver apparently didn't see the bike or the car behind it, the cars behind that driver did see both bike and car.

The cars behind him had a completely different viewpoint.

OwlCapone · 05/09/2014 14:04

It is impossible for us to make any kind of judgement about what happened. Only the police/magistrate/judge are able to do that. Anything else is just supposition.

KneeQuestion · 05/09/2014 14:05

Owl, they may have had a different viewpoint, but are you really saying that a driver in the road position that that car was, would not have had a good view of oncoming traffic?

KoalaDownUnder · 05/09/2014 14:09

It is not that much of a stretch to assume that that is because he didn't look. If he had looked he would have seen it like the other car drivers did.

I hit a cyclist once, while I was driving. I turned right onto a main road from a side road. He was coming towards me from my right-hand side - so I crossed his path and he hit my bonnet and flew off.

I had looked. The cyclist himself even gave a statement to the court that he had seen me come to a full stop (at a 'give way' sign) and look in his direction. I just didn't see him.

Just saying, it is possible to look in a certain direction, but not mentally process seeing everything.

SilverShadows · 05/09/2014 14:10

What happened with the car the bike overtook? Were they able to stop in time? Were they not at risk from being hit by the turning car?

In my eyes, if the turning manoeuvre would have been completed safely before the car coming in the opposite direction would have reached that spot, that the turning car was less at fault as it was an appropriate amount of time to make the turn. I can see why he did it.

KneeQuestion · 05/09/2014 14:13

It is impossible for us to make any kind of judgement about what happened. Only the police/magistrate/judge are able to do that. Anything else is just supposition

Absolutely.

The police/judge found the driver to have been at fault regardless of the bikes speed.

Many here seem to disagree with their informed decision though.

saintlyjimjams · 05/09/2014 14:16

It seems they've just applied a general rule - car driver was out of lane so therefore at fault. That seems grossly unfair to me (& I shall growl even louder than I already do at lunatics - bikers and car drivers - who drive at ridiculous speeds).

OwlCapone · 05/09/2014 14:16

are you really saying that a driver in the road position that that car was, would not have had a good view of oncoming traffic?

I'm saying that none of us have any idea. There are several possible reasons the cars behind could have a different view - slightly higher up, sightly further to the left... The only person with the view the driver got is the driver. Saying he didn't look is pure supposition and, TBH, a bit stupid. No (sane) driver turns right without looking for oncoming traffic. They might not see a bike but they will certainly have looked for cars.

If, by some freak happening, the car driver had died and the biker survived, the biker would have been prosecuted for dangerous driving (or whatever the correct legal term is). No one can argue they were driving in anything other than a dangerous manner.

plus3 · 05/09/2014 14:18

Knee - I agree with you, and think that you have been making your points very clearly..
My DH is a biker & wears a headcam for the same reasons - it is hideous to see how many car drivers don't appear to see him (despite high vis jacket etc)
I watched this video - I think David's mum is an incredibly brave woman. Yes, her message is think bike, but she is also saying to the bikers to please slow down. As awful as it is for the driver, he was found guilty & lost his licence. I am sure the speed was a factor in him not receiving a sentence, but ultimately David died and it sits very uneasily with me that people feel he deserved to.

OwlCapone · 05/09/2014 14:19

The police/judge found the driver to have been at fault regardless of the bikes speed.

Many here seem to disagree with their informed decision though.

I think most are of the opinion that the biker contributed equally to the accident. However, he paid a far higher price and obviously there was no prosecution for his recklessness.

BitOutOfPractice · 05/09/2014 14:20

I think it is a stretch to say he didn't see because he didn't look knee

If he had said, "I just didn't look and turned anyway" he would have been charged with dangerous driving. He wasn't. He was charged with careless driving wasn't he?

OwlCapone · 05/09/2014 14:20

it sits very uneasily with me that people feel he deserved to.

Does anyone feel he deserved to die? Some feel he contributed to it and that it wasn't surprising given he was 40 MPH over the speed limit - that isn't the same as thinking he deserved to die.

BitOutOfPractice · 05/09/2014 14:22

Plus, don't be ridicukous, nobody has said he deserved to die. In fact many, including me, have very carefully stated that we clearly don't think that. I think you need to RTT more carefully

saintlyjimjams · 05/09/2014 14:23

I think his death was a tragedy plus3 - what an utter waste of a young life. I don't think he deserved to die but I do think he contributed to his death.

And I get really angry with anyone - car drivers or bikers - that I see driving at those speeds on public roads. They kill too many people. Go and hire yourself a session on a racetrack if you really need to drive that fast.

gertiegusset · 05/09/2014 14:24

I don't think anyone thinks that the biker deserved to die. Confused

OwlCapone · 05/09/2014 14:25

My brother is a biker BTW so I am far from unsympathetic to bikers.

I do get wound up by the idiotic minority who think that the speed limits don't apply to them though. I remember starting a thread here asking whether I was unreasonable to think that bikers had to follow the same rules as cars wrt speed limits etc. Strangely, several people said that I was and that bikers "use the road differently" to car drivers. Something like that anyway. A stupid attitude which to my mind goes some way to explaining the idiotic bikers out there.

KneeQuestion · 05/09/2014 14:26

I had looked. The cyclist himself even gave a statement to the court that he had seen me come to a full stop (at a 'give way' sign) and look in his direction. I just didn't see him

You were probably looking for car shapped objects, not bikes. Thats why the 'think bike' campaign is needed, so many people just don't look for bikes when they perform their checks.

Just saying, it is possible to look in a certain direction, but not mentally process seeing everything

Absolutely.

KneeQuestion · 05/09/2014 14:34

If he had said, "I just didn't look and turned anyway" he would have been charged with dangerous driving. He wasn't. He was charged with careless driving wasn't he?

careless driving because he didnt pay due care?

KneeQuestion · 05/09/2014 14:36

I wouldn't say people think he deserved to die, but there is an element of 'he had it coming'. I have read comments saying that he did deserve it on other sites where posts are less measured though.

saintlyjimjams · 05/09/2014 14:40

I do think if he routinely drove in that way the chances of him having a serious accident resulting in serious injury to himself at some stage were highly likely. I'd say the same of a car driver driving that aggressively. Is that 'he had it coming?'. I don't think so, if it is then yes he did.

When I first passed my driving test the first bit of advice my dad hammered home was to drive defensively, and realise that other road users could at any moment do something unexpected. If you routinely drive at 100mph you are rather expecting everyone else on the road to not make any mistakes - ever.