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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think this misses the point about costs of childcare?

999 replies

adsy · 03/09/2014 07:41

"Critics have complained that homes where one parent stays at home to look after children will not benefit."

This is in response to the new scheme where parents will get 20% of childcare costs paid for by the government.
I'm a CM and all for subsidies of any sort to help out parents, but other than the odd day when you might need to go for an interview etc. I can't see why a stay at home parent needs to get childcare subsidies or am I missing a major point here?!

OP posts:
RufusTheReindeer · 06/09/2014 15:09

I have /will be returning at a much, much, much, much, much lower level!!!

Pretty much at lava level, or do I mean magma level (that sounds rude)

Really, really low let's put it that way
I thought I will go to work when ds2 goes to if infant school, then it was when he went to junior school, then I thought senior school...and now he had started senior school, going back to work when he starts college is looking more attractive

SeagullsAndSand · 06/09/2014 15:10

Not

morethanpotatoprints · 06/09/2014 15:11

Lines

I know you are not making a judgement and you believe you are talking facts and this is where the problem lies with many wohp on threads like this. If you aren't working, you aren't currently contributing

This isn't true for all, it isn't a fact.
I am earning and haven't worked in over 20 years.
It is my ambition atm to earn enough to pay tax, which I hope will be soon. Grin I have also paid tax as a hr taxpayer in my early twenties.
When I pay this tax it won't be from work it will be from other income which isn't via work.
It may seem like I'm splitting hairs but I know I'm not the only person in my position, although I agree it isn't the most common way of gaining an income.

LinesThatICouldntChange · 06/09/2014 15:12

And I totally get that some families may make the decision that its unworkable for them to have two earners. Maybe they feel the pressure of one partner's job is too much to cope with the other partner working. They make a considered choice, as a couple, to carve things out so one earns and one takes on more of the other stuff.

But that principle applies in all sorts of ways, regardless of children. Some people decide to take lower paid, lower stress jobs when they are childless or single. They reflect on the pros and cons and act accordingly.

Some families cope very well with two high earners in the family. They often hire a nanny because they need a huge level of support but they are prepared to do that. Other families choose for one parent to stop work completely and the other to continue earning highly. Some couples prefer to both work at a more middling level rather than one taking on promotions which would lead to stress, working away etc

On a personal level I have had people ask me how on earth I went back to work with a 12 week old. To them, it's impossible. Well, clearly it isn't- because I did it (and continued bf too though that's another topic!)

There are multiple ways to share, or outsource, aspects of running a home and caring for children. Why the need for anyone to sit in judgement on anyone else?
It comes down to deciding what is best for your own family at the particular stage in life you're at, and accepting that you can't expect govt policy to change to suit your personal circumstances at any given moment.

SeagullsAndSand · 06/09/2014 15:14

My Dsis worked all the way through using a "degree educated nanny" as quoted below she worked and saved for prior to dc.She is highly successful in her relatively low paid field considering the hours.Since her dc have started school,she has voluntarily chosen a lesser part time role and can't wait for it to start.Her dh took a lesser part time role too although I think he is planning on upping it again.

They are a team and have a fab set up that works for them.So have we.

Infinity8 · 06/09/2014 15:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LinesThatICouldntChange · 06/09/2014 15:17

X posts there morethan!

I know you've explained your circumstance but the fact is, that's pretty rare. Most SAHP do not have their own income, and indeed, the stats show that women who haven't worked for a long period of time, normally have a very dicy long term future, and will be relying on a paltry state pension, probably paid out at about 75 if it still exists at all!

You clearly have a wonderful set up which works nicely for you, but please don't extrapolate from that, that all other SAHM do

SeagullsAndSand · 06/09/2014 15:19

Lines your last paragraph is exactly what many sahp are saying(incidentally the judgement against sahp is far more prolific and getting worse tbf). It seems that wp expect their choices to be validated by gov policy but others aren't allowed to do the same.

SeagullsAndSand · 06/09/2014 15:21

Infinity I appreciate that.

I am insured too!Grin

Snapespotions · 06/09/2014 15:28

I do contribute to dh's income. As well paid as he is, if I wasn't here, he wouldn't be able to afford a live in nanny (which he would need in order to travel abroad/leave for work at odd hours etc). My contribution is the reason why I bothered to get life insurance. I know what it would cost to 'replace' me

But if you worked in a regular 9-5 job, he wouldn't need a live-in nanny, would he? You would need daytime childcare.

Of course, if you both worked in high-powered jobs with lots of travel, you might need a bit more help. However, in that scenario, you'd both be on decent salaries so it wouldn't be your DH alone who had to pay for it.

WOHMs still do an awful lot of parenting, you know, so comparing WOH with being dead is really rather irrelevant.Hmm

LinesThatICouldntChange · 06/09/2014 15:34

Wrong seagulls. I don't expect my choices to be validated by anyone other than me and my family.

You're over thinking it.

The taxation system is about economics, not some value judgement about our personal worth. I am working at the moment; ergo I will get any tax breaks that go with that. I also have to pay (a lot) of tax. If I stop working tomorrow, I won't get any tax breaks because I won't be earning. (Or indeed paying tax on earning!)

morethanpotatoprints · 06/09/2014 15:35

Lines

I agree with you and wouldn't want to give the impression that most sahps have the same set up as me, but I do know plenty who do as well as plenty that don't.
My problem wasn't necessarily that people generalise because that is normal when the stats say what they do, there is no getting away from norms.
However, other posters use these blanket statements to say that it is fact for everyone in this position and it is wrong, that's all.
If you read back to last night you can see this.

Infinity8 · 06/09/2014 15:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SeagullsAndSand · 06/09/2014 15:41

No I'm not overthinking it thanks.

Families with 2x wp parents want help for their life choices.All power to them. But sorry so do families with a sahp.

At the end of the day the needs of children should actually be involved in this discussion too and some need and will benefit from a sahp the same as some will with 2 xwp.

SeagullsAndSand · 06/09/2014 15:42

Infinity I knew exactly what you meant.

Infinity8 · 06/09/2014 15:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

amothersplaceisinthewrong · 06/09/2014 15:54

If we are subsidising childcare then what about subsidising those who look after elderly relatives... why single out childcare....

And you WOHP with a downer on SAHMS, it is the SAHMS who are volunteering to hear your kids read at school, to make up the number of responsible adults to make a school trip viable , helping out in the community.

SeagullsAndSand · 06/09/2014 15:54

It's interesting.

I was told on another thread that by being a sahp I was "just a mummy" and had to accept that,on here I'm told all I do during the day is parenting.Both used as anti sahp terms. Apparently it's perfectly fine for wp to say this.Yet the same words get twisted into being anti wp insults when posters quite clearly don't mean that.

It's utter madness and hypocrisy of the highest order.

With that I'm off to make cake,all wp or sahp who care to do so feel free to follow suit.

Snapespotions · 06/09/2014 15:57

Yes I could do a 9-5 but wouldn't be prepared to while dh carried on in his career because it would mean doing virtually everything at home as well as having a job. I've no desire to do that just so I can generate more tax. So the reality is I could work but I would expect dh to cut back on his full on job too. So if we both earned between us what he currently earns now we would pay less tax and claim cb thereby costing the country more. Which is what I said at the start of the thread when the assumption was made that no sahp makes a contribution to anything other than their own family.

I think it's perfectly valid to say that you choose not to work because you don't desire to do that as well as housework etc. If it makes your own life and that of your DH easier, then fair enough - you are obviously adding value to your own family.

However, I still don't see how you are enabling him to do his current job or contributing to his income. You are reducing the pressure on him, yes, but that's different. Housework really doesn't take that long if you do it efficiently, especially not if split between two people. Your DH could still earn what he earns now, but you'd both have to work a bit harder.

Like I say, I think it's entirely reasonable if you choose not to make your lives harder than they need to be. It's a perfectly rational choice, and I'm not of the view that women should go to work. All families should organise themselves in the way that works best for them. I just don't understand why people feel the need to justify their choices by asserting that they enable their partners to earn more when this is very rarely the case.

For many families, there will be significant benefits to having one parent SAH. We chose for DH to SAH for a short period ourselves. However, the benefits cannot necessarily be measured in economic terms, and generally, the benefit is to the individual family rather than to society as a whole. Consequently, the state is unlikely to encourage this choice through tax breaks.

Snapespotions · 06/09/2014 15:59

And you WOHP with a downer on SAHMS, it is the SAHMS who are volunteering to hear your kids read at school, to make up the number of responsible adults to make a school trip viable , helping out in the community.

Not necessarily. Tons of WOHPs do this too, myself included.

Snapespotions · 06/09/2014 16:02

And infinity, effectively you were comparing WOH to being dead, because you started talking about what your DH would have to do if you died, when explaining why SAH enabled your DH to earn what he does.

JassyRadlett · 06/09/2014 16:14

raises hand

I work, I volunteer, I go on nursery trips. Assuming that working parents don't do any of that is as incorrect and offensive as people who slate SAHMs. (Which I don't, I have a degree of envy TBH.)

The thing is, most of us aren't looking to have our choices validated or recognised. Honestly, I don't give a shit what the state thinks about my choices unless they start to penalise me for making them.

That said I can understand why a government with these stated priorities would prioritise a tax break for those setups that based on the evidence make a greater economic contribution.

From a social standpoint, I like that it may give some families the choice of working (though will £2k max make enough of a difference? Hard to say.) But I don't kid myself that the state is making value judgements, rather than economic ones.

Infinity8 · 06/09/2014 16:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Snapespotions · 06/09/2014 16:19

He would only need a nanny if I wasn't around at all and the only way that would happen is if I died or was seriously ill. If I was woh I would be available for most of the childcare.

And this was my point. Why did you even bring up what would happen if you died in the context of this conversation? It's irrelevant.

However I would be unwilling to do this and would expect him to have a job with more regular hours so I could rely on him to share the home jobs.

Like I've said, I think this is fine - it's a lifestyle choice and a valid one. You wouldn't want him to work as many hours as he does if you were also working. However, that's not the same as saying that it wouldn't be possible.

TheWordFactory · 06/09/2014 16:21

I volunteered at my local school for years even though my DC didn't attend!

Why? Because the parents wouldn't! And plenty of the mums didn't work,..

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