To ask dc dad for more maintenance?

[GaryShitpeas]

Ds is 8 and his dad pays £170 a month maintenance. It's a private arrangement, we don't go through CSA or whatever it's called these days.

Here's the thing. I need more. don't know what his dad earns nowadays. But he has just bought a house for 180k and he has a mortgage on it which he said he got with he 5% deposit thing that's around now. So I would guess to get a mortgage of that size he must be on at least 30k? And I'm sure it's meant to be about 15% of salary as dh has another dd from his previous relationship who he pays that amount to her mum, and that was via CSA

But It's so awkward as we get on really well now and i don't want to risk jeopardising that and therefore possibly his relationship with ds

Wwyd? And Aibu and grabby to ask for more? I do need it btw I'm fucking broke tbh

[wink1970]

actually Chiefbillynacho, she was the one went to the CSA out of spite, so she was the one who ruined it.

You perhaps underestimate the effect of being threatened by the CSA? It was soul destroying. It was the early days and their systems were rubbish, so were their staff. We had various initial reports of having to hand over 50-75% of all net income, which would have bankrupted us. The staff assumed DH was a 'runaway dad' and talked to his work about his lack of involvement - in fact we were having the DCs to stay 3 days a week. The whole process was terrifying and unnecessary, and based on her spiteful approach to him moving on with a new partner (though she was the one who had cheated and left him).

FWIW, we paid the extra into an account and handed it over to DC on their graduations. Not all ex-husbands are bastards. Not all ex-wives are automatic saints.

[ChiefBillyNacho]

Dd's costs were around 60% of my income. A bit different from the 15% that her Dad was being asked to pay.

[Missunreasonable]

Ds has SN so I pay for a private school for him, this alone is over 1k a month.

Private school fees are a choice. Most SN can be catered for in state schools and when the state doesn't have a suitable option they fund places at non maintained schools.

[ChiefBillyNacho]

Wink, I understand it completely. It happened to us when I was with xh over maintenance for dsd. She pulled all sorts of tricks over contact, maintenance and things in general - we'd never have got to the point where we all went out for pizza for dsd's birthday or all being at her school play if xh had never spoken to her again.

[ArsenicyOldFace]

FWIW, we paid the extra into an account and handed it over to DC on their graduations. Not all ex-husbands are bastards. Not all ex-wives are automatic saints.

Of course not Wink. It doesn't even need pointing out.

Your second post adds a bit more context, your first, on its own just sounded barking.

I do wish this idea that CSA use is, in and of itself, an aggressive act would go away though. A neutral third party seemes )seemed) like a good idea to many.

[ArsenicyOldFace]

seems/seemed *

[TheCunkOfPhilomena]

It's so difficult with private arrangements as it relies on the honesty about income and both parents to be reasonable.

DS' dad pays £200 a month; he was paying £300 but then suddenly said he couldn't afford it anymore when he met his new gf. There's not much I can do about it unless I go to the new CSA thingy and if I do then I'd have to pay. I don't know how much he earns as he has a new, better job but he hasn't told me how much he receives.

You are not being grabby Gary, (that has a certain ring about it ), there's no way I could live on less than I do now and we only have a 2 bedroom flat, I don't go out or drink etc so outgoings are minimal.

[TOADfan]

With 2 children in his household and 1 night per week shared care the OPs ex partner will need to pay £221.14 if on Direct Pay if on Collect and pay the OP would get £212.29. This is based on a gross income of £30,000.

[NeedsAsockamnesty]

Private school fees are a choice. Most SN can be catered for in state schools and when the state doesn't have a suitable option they fund places at non maintained schools

Very rosy view of how accommodating the LA is,the experience I hear mostly is they try and pretend the state schools can cater and leave you to battle them often meaning you have to go to court

[Waltermittythesequel]

Yes, £100 extra a month is not to be sniffed at.

However, that's assuming that he's making £30k.

If he's not then she could end up worse off which is why I think approaching it privately is best.

[NickiFury]

missunreasonable. Your last post is very ill informed. I have two dc with SN and ume the LA will go a LONG way not have to fund private school places. SEN provision is woeful and inadequate in most areas and paying privately is a necessity not a choice.

[Greengrow]

I pay everything and paid their father nearly £1m on the divorce and he never even bothers to have them one night a year. I suppose at least it's a simple deal and our court order says whoever they live with I pay school fees and university fees / costs for five children. Expensive business being the higher earner. Most women seem to get given money or at least some.

The point is what is a reasonable sum and what isn't? In our family I paid/pay at least £50k a year for school fees. In most families that woudl be more than the mother (or father) earns. So you cannot really compare. We can say what the law says for an absent father 15% of his net pay after tax I think it is under CSA formula or it was. If the father or mother is on say £500k though things are different and if they are on benefit then it might just be £5 a week. You just cannot say what is a fair sum or not. Anyway anyone getting anything is getting a lot more than I do.

[ArsenicyOldFace]

Yes Green we know. It's the most famous divorce on MN.

But you got the island right? Swings and roundabouts...

Back in the real world.....

However, that's assuming that he's making £30k.

I don't suppose just asking him about his earnings would work Gary?

[ArsenicyOldFace]

You just cannot say what is a fair sum or not. Anyway anyone getting anything is getting a lot more than I do

And it is not an absolute argument.

Someone receiving nothing who could do with help to cover essentials is in a very different position to someone who can cover essentials comfortably without CM.

The moral responsibility to contribute to your DC is a separate issue.

Private school fees can be essential for SN. (Nicki describes the situation re. LA funding accurately), but by and large school fees are NOT an essential.

You are comparing situations that don't bear comparison.

[Missunreasonable]

If have a child with SN and one without and am well aware of the legal requirements and what happens in practice. Many parents whether SN or not want better than what the LA can provide educationally for their child. The LA is required by law to provide an appropriate education for each child. Parents might not agree that's the LA is providing an appropriate or adequate education and might decide to go private but it is a choice. I am saying this with the experience of having a child whose needs I felt were not met by the LA.
If we ask ourselves the question of what we would do without the means to pay for something that we deem to be more appropriate; the answer is we would have to accept the Place at a maintained school or we would have to go through the appeal process (and probably be unsuccessful and accept the place at the maintained school).
Paying for private education is a choice. It might not feel like a choice to those whose children have SN but it is a choice and is only available to those who can pay.

[GaryShitpeas]

Yes Green we know. It's the most famous divorce on MN.But you got the island right? Swings and roundabouts...Back in the real world.....

actual lol arsenic

as for asking about his earnings, yes I suppose I could! would feel cheeky though, as he doesn't know what I earn fuck all atm hmmm

[NickiFury]

They are required by law but often do not and cannot provide suitable education. That is why I am forced to home educate one of my children. Clearly you have not experienced the brick wall that is an LA that will go to any lengths not to pay to provide suitable provision.

[fedupbutfine]

actually Chiefbillynacho, she was the one went to the CSA out of spite, so she was the one who ruined it.

most people go to the CSA because rightly or wrongly, they believe that their children are not receiving the minimum maintenance as prescribed by Law. There are many reasons for this - from a new, expensive car on the driveway, a new large house, many years having passed since the last assessment and an assumption that salary must have increased, a tip-off from a mutual friend that the ex has been bragging they don't pay the right amount etc. etc. I have never come across anyone who deliberately gets the CSA involved as a method by which to beat the ex about the head with (although that is often a bonus!).

Your husband, sadly, made a choice not to rise about this and by your own admission, never spoke to his ex again. You also state he was willing to pay more maintenance but didn't on some kind of principle based on the fact that the CSA had been involved. That's his decision and his right, of course, but the suggestion that the knock on effect - difficulties with contact, at parties, graduations etc. is then the wife's fault is just plain wrong. Sometimes you have to be the bigger person. You fight fire with fire and you just get...more fire.

I say that as someone who's ex is self employed and earns way, way more than I could ever hope to. He doesn't pay a penny and hasn't for over 6 years now. I smile, wave my children off into his care and I never say a word. They don't have a clue. Alternatively, I could be a total bitch and spend hours bad-mouthing him and doing my upmost to turn the children against him and his (numerous) new partners. Our children are now getting older - and just sometimes, they say things which makes me realise that they know and understand far, far more than I had realised. We reap what we sow.

[Greengrow]

(Just to be clear I sold the island at Easter to pay off some of the divorce borrowings which had topped £1.3m to pay off his demands so I am no longer an island owners. It is not fun being overdrawn, with no savings and owing £1.3m although I never expect anyone to weep for me on MN.)

Yes, good point that a single most who earns enough to feed her children and does not get anything from her ex may be in a better position than someone whose earnings are lower and is paid £100 a month for the children and cannot afford the children's food particularly if she works full time and moves to find work where necessary.

[ArsenicyOldFace]

Bloody credit crunch eh Green?

I might try selling my shed.

[WooWooOwl]

I think it would be a bit cheeky to ask of you aren't working tbh. Whatever the legalities and what the CSA says, morally, if you aren't working and could afford to have two more children after your ds with your ex, you can't be that badly off, and it's more likely that you skint because of those reasons than because your ex doesn't pay enough maintenance.

I think it would be fine if you were expecting him to pay half towards childcare or school trips or extra curricular activities, things that were directly for the sole benefit of his child, but not just to add to your household pot.

[NickiFury]

OP's choices are irrelevant woowoo. There is a legally determined amount that her child's father should be paying, he should be paying it. HE can afford to have more children and a nice big house. Are you saying that OP should not have the same choices so that SHE can make up the short fall left by him not paying an adequate amount?

[WooWooOwl]

We don't know that it is a shortfall left by him paying an inadequate amount, and we don't know that he isn't paying what the CSA would determine because we don't know enough about his financial circumstances.

Like I said, I'd think OP was completely right to ask for more money to cover half of the things that are directly for the sole benefit of her ds with this ex.

Ops choices are not irrelevant if she's now struggling for money. They are very relevant if they contribute to the situation she's in now.

[ArsenicyOldFace]

Woo you can't have a sytem that accepts CM will reduce when NRP acquires DSC, but reduces because PWC has further DC.

[SolomanDaisy]

Unless his wife is also earning, I'd bet he's earning a lot more than £30k to get a £170k mortgage after the new mortgage system came in.