to think that depression is a natural and rational response to life?

[ghostland]

Since Robin Williams death, there has been a lot of discussion about depression, almost as though it is some obscure, uncommon, illness that RW death has broken the taboo regards to speaking about it (this happens every few years it seems until depression once again becomes unspoken of and shameful to polite society).

Am I right in thinking that not only is depression extremely common but that it is a natural and rational response to life (in the sense that life is very complex and full of extremes that provoke much mental anguish). I don't think the prefix "mental" when talking about mental health or mental illness helps either as it makes it sound like something that is unnatural (akin to psychosis/schizophrenia which is very different) whereas I think "mental illness" is actually a valid and rational response to being human and living life (I know the juxtaposition of rational and mental illness seems weird but in this context I think it makes perfect sense). Anyone agree with the premise that depression is a natural and rational response to life and that the majority of the population are depressed to some degree?

I think there's a big difference between feeling a bit down because of tough life events, and a chemical imbalance that triggers a depressive response, even when times are good. I have felt the former at various times during my life, and am now experiencing the latter because of a thyroid condition that is up and down seven months after I gave birth. Until my thyroid balances and my levels of thyroid medication are adequate, depression is one of the main symptoms, and there is nothing I can do to change that. Going to the gym, seeing friends, eating well, loving my kids etc. can sometimes lift my mood, and I refuse to let the condition get the better of me, but ultimately I cannot shake this feeling of heaviness.

I think that there is a spectrum. A low level of reactive depression to bad things happening in the world is normal. Serious clinical depression that stops you functioning and makes you want to hurt yourself is an illness. A severe level of depression isn't that different to psychosis/schizophrenia. In fact, severe clinical depression can be psychotic. I'm not sure I understand your point about "mental". Depression can be an illness. If the majority of the population are depressed to some degree, when do you think that someone should seek help?

I think you'll come up against various different definitions of depression - a pervasive sadness possibly initially caused by difficult circumstances/ a chemical imbalance that can be 'corrected' etc - that means it's not a yes/no answer.

For what it's worth, though, and leaving aside the term 'depression', I think that sadness is frequently an appropriate response to the world, even if it's not the most 'useful'. And at least some research suggests that depressed people 'read' the world more accurately and realistically - ie. they rate their own performance at a task more accurately than non-depressed people on the same task. I think the initial study was by Alloy and Adamson.

Agreed being sad and reflective isn't comparable to the illness which is depression.

I agree that some level of depression as a result of bad things happening (bereavement, financial problems, physical illness etc) is normal.

But there's also the sort of depression that can hit someone even when there's no external reason for it.

And what the cause, I think that depression bad enough to stop someone functioning normally and drive them to suicide should be considered an illness.

Well I think it depends on the extent of depression. Being depressed can be normal in response to some life events, but I think people who have had clinical depression can see the difference between feeling sad because something has happened and being depressed. People tend to seek help when 'sadness' stops them from living their life in the way they would like to or makes them want to hurt themselves or not be alive anymore.

I have bipolar and before I was on medication I was severely depressed for 2 years, I couldn't go out, self harmed and at numerous points wanted to die. It didn't matter what was going on in my life, i felt the same - that's is an illness. Now though I have very occasional bouts of illness and mostly what I would say are periods of sadness but the two are nowhere near alike

How do you personally define depression ghostland?

I think depression is a natural result to listening to the news, but if we turn off the news, maybe life is a bit better.

Psychosis and schizophrenia are unnatural?

I have been diagnosed with depression in the past, but it has been the kind of depression you are talking about, 'reactive' depression, as in a reaction to a particular set of circumstances happening at that time.

I was offered counselling and declined as I felt that only a change in circumstances would help and I was right.

There are others who have depression with no known cause and it is not as simple as a natural and rational response to life. There is little that can lift that dark cloud of doom.

What about people who don't watch the news?

Am I right in thinking that not only is depression extremely common but that it is a natural and rational response to life
No, because I don't think you are defining depression, I think you are describing sadness, anxiety and difficulty coping with life stress, not depression.

There is nothing natural or rational about wanting to kill yourself for no reason even when life is otherwise 'good'.

Having said that I do think depression is over diagnosed. Many people 'just' have shitty lives and struggle to cope, this is not the same as being clinically depressed.

On a side note the constant regurgitation of the chemical imbalance hypothesis as if it were stone cold fact really gets on my tits.

No it isn't rational or 'natural' (as in fine and healthy). It's technically natural the same way cancer is natural. Reactive and clinical depression are different things. Long grief and sadness is common and a natural response, but that doesn't equal depression, although it can trigger depression- reactive depression. But depression is an illness (I have GAD and depression). Self harming, suicidal thoughts, intrusive thoughts, hating yourself, panic attacks and not being able to work, go out of the house etc is not a healthy or normal response. It is increasingly common though, 1 in 4 will have some type of mental illness in their lifetime, most will have depression or anxiety, but it is still an illness.

Op, you speak a lot of sense.

I believe that feeling low or down or sad is natural life but actual depression which is classed as a MH illness is different.

Depression is an illness, something that you cannot shake out of, lasting weeks or months on end. Wanting to give up on life because it'd just be better all round.... Sadness is something you can get over, few off days but ultimately you manage to control with very little intervention.

I do not think everyone suffers from depression and I think the term depression is thrown around all too easily in many situations which almost trivialises (sp?) the condition. Ie "ohhhh there's no chocolate ice cream left, I really wanted some, how depressing"

I've been both full blown clinically depressed and sad. I agree that I think depression covers a wide range of feelings from sadness at life events to having full-blown, unable to function, lie in bed all day apathy-depression. I wasn't trying to belittle clinical depression, my point was more that depression isn't something that should be taboo and depressed people shouldn't be seen as being abnormal. I don't even think clinical depression is abnormal because it is so common to have organic depression that doesn't stem from outside circumstances, perhaps because of modern life our biochemistry/neurology cannot adequately cope with things and hasn't caught-up.

Eh?

I don't understand what you mean about the word mental? Mental just refers to things in the mind surely - like mental arithmetic, that doesn't suggest it's unnatural arithmetic?

Mental health is just the health of the mind. Which is natural and normal to have alongside health of the body or physical health.

Minor depression is a health issue of the mind, so is schizophrenia. A cold is a physical health issue so is kidney failure.

Minor health issues may well resolve without treatment or may need interventions other than medication - lifestyle or thought pattern changes. Or they might need treatment, it depends on the person the circumstances, what else is going on with them etc.

Sadness and depression aren't the same. Sadness is a natural emotion although some people might still need help to work through it and it can of course be very debilitating. I would use grief as an example of sadness - it's a natural response to things that are, well, sad.

Depression is different, it's the mind not responding normally. It's not necessarily worse than sadness but it's not the same thing either. I think that's the thing that should be clearer. Similar symptoms, not both illness.

No. Clinical depression can effect people for years on end and in some people is very difficult to treat. It can be triggered by traumatic events, but can also be down to an inherited disposition, a chemical imbalance, or in an unlucky few, all three. People do not get depression because life is a bit difficult or from normal ups and downs and to say so is minimising a terribly destructive and disruptive illness which is much misunderstood and can be fatal. I am shocked that someone who has suffered clinical depression can reduce it to the commonly held belief that some people just can't cope with life very well and should buck up their ideas. Very offensive OP.

I think the difficulty is that people use the phrase "depression" when what they are actually referring to is sadness/grief/etc.

It is normal to have periods of your life when you feel sad/upset/listless/miserable because of things going on in your life.

Depression is a clinical condition and is not normal.

OP, in the nicest possible way, you don't know whay you are talking about

Being sad is a rational response to bad and sad things happening, but that is not what clinical depression is

"Mental health is just the health of the mind. Which is natural and normal to have alongside health of the body or physical health."

Well, not really. How do you define "mind"? It makes no sense really to talk of an illness of the "mind" when "mind" itself is such a nebulous entity.

Most psychiatrists have come to accept that depression is not the result of a chemical imbalance, but it remains a popular misconception.

This excellent article by an academic explains it very well:

theconversation.com/comparing-depression-to-cancer-doesnt-help-anyone-30585

"I am shocked that someone who has suffered clinical depression can reduce it to the commonly held belief that some people just can't cope with life very well and should buck up their ideas."

Of course, the OP didn't actually say that. You're arguing against what you wish she'd said. I don't think you understand what she actually said.