to think that depression is a natural and rational response to life?

[ghostland]

Since Robin Williams death, there has been a lot of discussion about depression, almost as though it is some obscure, uncommon, illness that RW death has broken the taboo regards to speaking about it (this happens every few years it seems until depression once again becomes unspoken of and shameful to polite society).

Am I right in thinking that not only is depression extremely common but that it is a natural and rational response to life (in the sense that life is very complex and full of extremes that provoke much mental anguish). I don't think the prefix "mental" when talking about mental health or mental illness helps either as it makes it sound like something that is unnatural (akin to psychosis/schizophrenia which is very different) whereas I think "mental illness" is actually a valid and rational response to being human and living life (I know the juxtaposition of rational and mental illness seems weird but in this context I think it makes perfect sense). Anyone agree with the premise that depression is a natural and rational response to life and that the majority of the population are depressed to some degree?

I think sadness is a rational response but I think depression is either a chemical imbalance in some people or the inability to cope with sadness in others.

i think every persons battle with depression is different. I have witnessed some close people in my life battle this and the outcome depended on what caused the depression and what steps they took to solve it. since developing an under active thyroid I have suffered with periods of depression and panic attacks. I try my best to keep it at bay through meditation and exercise. Of course that won't work for everyone and it's a shame people aren't more supported.

I think it's good to talk about depression and make it less taboo. most people will experience some level of it and it's nothing to be ashamed of.

I think there's a pretty generally accepted view of what comprises 'mind'. If I were to break it down, I would explain it as thoughts, feeling, emotions, perceptions - all of the things that your brain is responsible for that relate to the way we view and respond to the world. As oppose to the other more practical side of the brains work keeping the machine going.

It is in some ways very nebulous and of course there are difficulties in defining things that are hard to quantify, feelings might be one example, pain might be another.

Just because we don't fully understand the mechanisms or processes doesn't mean we can't recognise when something is wrong with them.

I don't have to have a definition of exactly what my body is to know when I'm not well.

Feeling sad feeling fed up is a natural reaction to life we can have bad patches in life qhere we are deeply unhappy ness that unhappyness can trigger chemical imbalance but no depression is an illness sadness isnt

Anyone agree with the premise that depression is a natural and rational response to life and that the majority of the population are depressed to some degree?

No, I really don't agree. And it's exactly the sort of slightly misguided nonsense that mental health and depression services/charities have been trying to combat for years.

It's a very short and well trodden step from there to reasoning that if depression is a natural response and most of the population are depressed to some degree and they all appear to be getting on with it, then the problem is with the person and they should just pull themselves together.

No depression isn't a rational response to life. Imagine not wanting to bath/shower/wash/leave your bed/feeling ambivalent about actually being alive on a daily basis. Not at all rational.

I had a severe reactive depression, which was due to a difficult babyhood leading to a difficult childhood leading to a difficult adulthood. I knew that something had gone wrong at an early age leading me to feel very much like I didn't belong in life, or able to enjoy it.

I never felt like I had a chemical imbalance which had lead me to feel depressed, I remember feeling that anyone who'd been through what I'd been through as a child would probably have ended up in the same place.

Luckily for me, therapy sorted it out and I kind of psychologically grew out of it, so I don't feel like that any more but yes - it was a reaction - to difficult events in my formative years, in my case.

I see your point. Depression can be and is a symptom of certain life events I.e death of a loved one or a massive life changing event such as a bad accident, a life threatening illness, a debilitating condition etc. It's very very normal for that to kick start depression.

However depression is more than feeling a bit down. I hate how easily depressed is used. People exclaim they are "so depressed" when in actual fact what they mean is they had a bad day or they're feeling a bit low but it's nothing a good nights sleep/bottle of wine/catch up with a friend won't solve. Depression is an illness, just like cancer and heart disease are. There's a huge difference between reacting to sad things in life by being sad and actually being depressed. It's normal to feel down for a while when you break up with your boyfriend for example, you'd only be depressed if it was severely impacting on your life to a point where you had no interest in anything, couldn't see the woods for the trees, maybe even wanted to hurt yourself and all the other horrid symptoms that go along with depression. Also depression doesn't just go away like sadness does. You feel shit when you break up for a bit but it does lift and you do start to feel better and happier again. True depression doesn't just magic away with time.

There is reactive depression and then clinical depression..my dh suffers from severe clinical depression.. He had a very good life..good family...but slipped into clinical depression...As a result l fell into reactive depression when he was not the man l married when he lost his job when he was cranky and miserable...two completely different situations. However l do think that people with clinical depression are often more sensitive to how sh..t things in the world can be..its like they are missing that outside layer of protection from the heartaches of life...l notice with my dh he is a very sensitive person to others pain to bad news while l am more resilient

the species would die out v quickly if we looked rationally at life so i dont see depression as a useful 'natural' response to life. i do think it is a rational response though but i see most humans as having a working filter that protects them from seeing life as it really is.

interesting link about 'existential' depression www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10269.aspx

Clinical depression is a qualitatively not a quantitatively different mental state to normal.

The biological changes may cause physical symptoms like early morning wakening, diurnal mood variation, leaden exhaustion. A sufferer may literally lack the energy and motivation to get out of bed, sleeping excessively. Interestingly forced sleep deprivation may temporarily lift the symptoms.

The depressive cognitions (e.g. guilt, ruminations, hopelessness) can resolve fairly quickly as the depression is treated. Untreated the impact on the sufferer and their family is immeasurable.

It can be difficult to diagnose and understand mental illness - hence the need for experts working in psychiatric services. Perhaps if the public was better educated about mental illness then psychiatric services might be more valued.

To add - agree with much of what has been written above, in response to the OP.

My response above is overly harsh, I'm sorry. I've asked for it to be removed.

Replace 'normal' with healthy.

i dont actually see why feeling sad is ok but depressed not ok when looking at life events

despite technological advances including space travel, as a species we are one massive horrible disaster zone
war, nuclear war, terrorism, rape, global warming, mass extinction

sad, yes

that this is the ongoing, permanent state of humanity

frankly, that is depressing

I got confused reading your OP as it seemed to say that psychosis and schizophrenia aren't natural. They're as natural as depression or any other illness is, so that point makes no sense.

Reactive depression, where you get depressive symptoms after a sad or traumatic life event is as natural as clinical depressions - which may have had roots in life events too.

Separating depression from other mental health problems is devicive. It's Almost like you're having acceptable and unacceptable illnesses.

Fact is ALL illness, mental or otherwise is part of the spectrum of human life and there should be no distinction between illnesses of the brain or anywhere else.

OP, your post speaks of massive ignorance in the mental health sphere. However, I think there's also a language issue. "Depressed" is used far too often to describe "feeling-a-bit-shit-after-a-bad-day", in the same way as people will say "oh, I'm such an alcoholic!" after even a rare too-much-booze night, etc etc... Appropriate 'cynicism at the state the world is in' does not equate to struggle-to-dress-yourself clinical depression. I recommend Sally Brompton's 'Shoot The Damn Dog' if you'd like to understand the difference better.

When I feel down, I search for the cause. If I find it - e.g. someone was horrible to me/I was horrible to someone else/I'm powerless to alter a bad situation - then I call it sadness and give myself permission to feel bad. If I can't find a cause, then I know it's depression and that's much more worrying. Though I believe most depression is in reality deferred or displaced sadness. We're so adept at bottling up our feelings; social media don't help, especially for young people (though MN is an honourable exception, people can tell it like it is here). The rapper Professor Green did a Radio 1 programme about suicide about a year ago, I was shocked to hear youngster after youngster saying, 'I felt so cut off, I couldn't tell anyone how I felt.' The most connected generation in the history of mankind but it means nothing when the chips are down because there's such a taboo against expressing negative feelings online, you get dismissed as 'emo' or just 'moist' i.e. emotional.

So I'm uncomfortable with 'normalising' depression in the way you describe OP. Life can indeed be hard but we humans are very resilient creatures. We owe it to ourselves - and our loved ones who have to live with us when we're down - to ferret out the sources of depression, including going to therapy. I'm a big fan of CBT; I know it's taken a lot of flak but I believe that's mainly because people hear 'Behavioural' and start thinking of patients being trained like Pavlov's dogs. CBT helped me realise assumptions and expectations I didn't know I had, it is an excellent way to combat depression imho.

If we stop considering depression as 'abnormal' then why would we bother trying to treat it? we'd be dooming people with depression to just put up with it???

I think Op makes a good point.
Diabetes, a obesity related illness, ADHD are on the way up. I don't know why everyone gets upset when someone suggests clinical depression may be a sign of the times too.

I think often we try to therapise and medicate people who are in extremely awful situations
I ponder that short term CBT is being offered to stick together truly shit social deprivation etc at times
Sometimes depression does have a situational element that we simply never address