Am I going too far re snappy dog?

[LapsedTwentysomething]

I have posted about this before but it's ongoing and significant at the moment due to a family event.

My DM has three sisters. We have always been quite an involved family and my DD loves her great aunts, one in particular who had until the incident described always given her a lot of playful attention.

18 months ago, at a family party at that particular aunt's home, her very spoilt dog tried to bite my cousin's DD, then aged two, in the face. Luckily she jumped back and the dog missed her. Despite my cousin's insistence that her DD had simply been walking past it was dismissed by my aunt as her having provoked him and him reacting . Regardless, my view is that the dog can't be trusted around children. I suspect it was partly disgruntled because family mebers who had been drinking had been using the dog's squeaky toys to amuse my cousin's baby.

I really feel that if a dog has form for biting, it can't be trusted around children at all. The following week I called ahead of another celebration at the same house to ask whether my aunt would mind closing the dog away. She was a bit snotty about it but replied that of course he would. We went along and the dog, plus other guests' dogs were lose. Another aunt (also a dog lover) seemed to be making a point of playing with the baby at floor level, with the dogs jumping around him.

The incident really opened my eyes to the risks of any dog being unrestrained around small children and I made the decision we simply couldn't risk visits any more, including the other aunt who has two dogs running freely and insists on feeding my DCs crap crisps and biscuits while they are around. She has refused point blank to do anything to restrain her dogs, who are even allowed on the dinner table and fed there by the family.

To cut a long story short this has led to our exclusion from family events. There was another big one last night at the house with the snappy dog. However my cousin took her DCs along and doesn't seem as concerned about the risk as I do. This makes me question myself. AIBU? Should I let it drop now?

My feeling is that the risk is still as great as it was 18 months ago and that when adults are drinking and going off to play with the kids without paying full attention, it's not safe.

I also feel that given our exclusion during a tough year (my DM has advanced cancer) I am ready to cut ties.

But am I overreacting?

Why not invite them all without dogs to your house? Why do all events have to be somewhere else? or do you really just not want the kids to grow up with extended family and all the benefits as well as obligations that brings?

Having the dogs loose and taking their toys for the children is going to cause problems, whether the dog is naturally snappy or not. It's irresponsible and asking for trouble. I would stay away too, and I am a dog owner.

Dogs are easily upset by visitors, especially dcs who are noisy and unpredictable. They should be kept separate for their comfort and security as well as the dcs. Your aunt obviously knows very little about dogs.

If the dogs are the only bone of contention though I do think it is U to refuse to socialise in the homes of other family members (assuming the dogs are not generally brought along) and in public places like cafes and restaurants - I also don't quite see why you want to stop seeing the aunts and cousins altogether, rather than just avoiding places their dogs will be - unless there is more to it, or their dogs rank so highly with them that bad feeling is created by you not adoring them as much as their owners do?

do you really just not want the kids to grow up with extended family and all the benefits as well as obligations that brings?

This is what I'm asking myself. I'm taking it very personally, partly because I'm always knackered but also because I could really have done with family support to cope with my mum's diagnosis, treatment and subsequent crap scan results. We really seem to be out of sight and out of mind.

I guess I could have them here but really my generation is quite big and it's not what we 'do'. We are unable to do so much with then that I personally feel too hurt to bother with the relationship any further. But I do appreciate what you're saying about DCs.

That said, lots of extended families aren't close. And my DCs have their own aunts and uncles. It's just not as special as the family atmosphere used to be.

Completely fine. Dogs are over anthromorphosised by many owners which leads to aggressive behaviour. (which then gets rewarded by the fussing, putting off with treats).
No matter how domesticated people think they are it's pretty much an illusion.
I'd stick to what you believe to be safe.

I am having something very similar with my DM. She has just got a new puppy who is very 'nippy'. I understand that puppies are like that but she is constantly telling my DD off stating that she is provoking the dog with her excited screaming (she's 3, that's what 3yo do) so tbh I've stopped going there and invite her to my house instead. I can't relax when I'm there and my DS is terrified of the dog because it barks all the time.
Unfortunate she kindly looks after my DS one day a week whilst I work so I'm having to fork out for childcare now, I've told her its because DS 'needs' nursery but it's actually because of the dog, the thought of him being made to stroke the dog all day 'stroke the doggy he wont hurt you he just wants to play' whilst he's terrified makes me want to vomit.

Have texted you OP. I will add that family dynamics do change, especially in big families that are only getting bigger. Unless everyone lives in massive country houses with acres of garden, it's impractical to have everyone together in each other's houses. Your DC will have more than enough happy family memories of their own, they just won't be quite the same as yours. They'll be no less important to them though.

I know it's sad, but remember where their priorities are - not the safety of the little ones, that's for sure!

YANBU with regard to the dogs.

I also understand that you are tired and stressed and worried about your mum. But has there been a breakdown in communication in all this? Has anyone asked for their support with your mum's illness? Has it been turned down?

And when you are asked to events, I know you shouldn't need to pussyfoot around (sorry) with regard to the dogs, but dog owners can be very possessive about their pets and a more tactful approach about your concerns may bring better results.

whyhasmyheadgonenumb, I predict that it will become your fault that DS is afraid of the dog. It's certainly perceived as mine tha DD is scared of them. Makes no odds that she already was and that DH is nervous around them too. Actually DS who isn't scared and doesn't have the good sense to keep his distance worries me more. I need to find someone with a dog that is actually a dog and not a PFB to teach my DCs how to behave around them.

My cousin's dog even needs a babysitter when she goes to the hairdresser. What will happen when her own DC is born in a few weeks is anyone's guess.

haveagoodthink, good point. There are values within my extended family that I don't want my DCs exposed to anyway. My immediate family is very much more 'real' than that lot which will be best for us, I think.

Nanny, I thought I was being tactful. The text is plain but I thought not impolite. I was nervous when making the initial phone call as I was worried about asking, and was uber sensitive about how I did it, only to get an arsey response anyway.

I could make excuses for keeping away but I don't really see what hat will achieve (I know that's not what you're suggesting).

YANBU to not go to family events with the dogs (and yes, I imagine it's quite hurtful to have them want the dogs there above the children)

YABabitU to not allow them to visit Dcs or not go to any non-dog events but I sort of see where you're coming from. It's a bit 'baby with the bath water' and all that because if they've pissed you off with their general lack of supportiveness, why should you give a shit about times.

FWIW - we are in a similar position of being excluded from all my ILs events as I am severely allergic to fur and they won't put dogs away. Bit crap for Ds as all my family live far away, and I also feel a bit childish 'fuck em' on the rare non-dog occasions but make myself go for Ds' sake.

Yes OP when I peel him off my leg because he's so scared of the dogs barking I often get 'put him down, he's got to learn about dogs'
His uncle has new puppies who don't bark and he's fine with them, it's just the tiny, yappy kind that he doesn't like.

Don't think you are being unreasonable at all re not wanting your small DCs around small dogs in situations where it is easy for either the dogs or the DCs to get overexcited and for the DCs to get hurt.

One of my DCs had a very nasty cut when our small terrier jumped up and caught her with its canine. No bite and no intention to bite ( just an overexcited dog and a child bending down to play with it) but a slash that needed stitches under general anaesthetic.

As everyone else has said, YANBU about the dogs.
Try to separate the 2 issues though:
Your Aunts will always be unreasonable with anything to do with their dogs because their judgements are clouded.
Family events away from dogs are separate.
A relative once said of our dog, (who I loved,) "oh, she's just like one of your babies isn' t she."
Errrm, no. She's a dog.
They'll never see sense & you won't change them, no matter how reasonable you are.
I'd attend non-dog family events, but not dog-inclusive ones & try, through gritted teeth, to smile & keep the dog issue separate from how you feel about their behaviour.

you aren't over reacting. your decision however has caused this rift as they clearly count the animals as members of their family rather than pets. i would prefer that to a dead or injured child any day of the week. they can do whatever they want with their dogs in their own homes but your child's safety obviously for you comes first.

Not an overreaction at all. My parents adopted a Staffie/Pitbull cross when DS was about one. Before making the decision I met her, with DS, to gauge her reaction to him. As it happens she's a total softie, adores him and follows him around like his number one fan. She had a barking issue and the noise frightened DS, my parents worked incredibly hard to train it out of her and succeeded.

Dogs do not come before children.

I don't think you're overreacting at all. It's plain parental common sense to be very wary of unrestrained dogs of any breed. And very selfish and ignorant of your relatives not to keep their dogs away from children.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned some statistics from NHS. Here's a quote from NHS Choice website:
"Even if a dog has no previous history of biting, it can still bite. A dog breed’s reputation or appearance is also no guarantee of a dog’s behaviour. Family dogs such as labradors, collies and terriers have all been involved in fatal attacks."

It's as plain as the nose on your face. Dogs (no matter how fluffy, 'well-trained' or 'just making friends' they are) should be kept severely away from young children.

If your relatives won't do it themselves with their dogs, it's up to you to do what's necessary. So far from being an overreaction, it's a plain duty on your part to look after your children and keep them away.

Thank you for all the responses. It has made me feel that I'm not overreacting even if my cousin is prepared to chance it.

I don't know what I'll do about family relationships as opportunities to see each other without dogs are rare (the ones who let the dogs on the table even brought theirs to their daughter's wedding, FFS, that's the status that dogs hold in my family.

I will probably just be civil when I need to be with them at my immediate family's get togethers. I really don't want them to bother with my DCs on their birthdays if they aren't a priority at any other time.

YANBU. I was interested to read one of the dogs is a miniature schnauzer as that is what I have. She has been far more snappy than I thought these dogs were but she is improving all the time with age. She has just turned one. It is more what is classed as mouthing where the teeth are placed on you but skin not broken but either way I will not tolerate the aggression. She has bitten\mouthed my 12 year old DS but I get more cross with my DS as he is old enough to respect the dogs boundaries but does not always. I am constantly telling him to leave her alone and she is brilliant on the whole with him. I would never take the risk with anyone else's child though.
I have never heard of a miniature schnauzer attacking a child though in the same way as some breeds although do remember the Jack russell who killed a baby.

Yes the jack russell incident happened locally to us, about three months before the snapping incident. Another factor that really brought home to me the risk that any dog poses really.

Ugh! I could never go for a meal to a house where a dog (or cat for that matter) was allowed on the table.

Well, last night I was old I was fucking pathetic, to fucking pack it in, asked what risk and told my concerns were crap, by my mum's brother who despite very little contact with the family has suddenly found loyalty to his sisters. He ha told me I'm causing problems for my mum.

I am now absolutely determined that I will have as little as possible to do with them and will tell them so. The climate of two-facedness, disloyalty and failure to respect differ being points of view is unhealthy in my view. Obviously that's not all connected to this but their has been a lot of it over the years and moreso recently. This is the tipping point for me. There are also some racist, snobbish and otherwise prejudiced views at play within the family (total, unapologetic drip feed) and I think my DCs are better off without them.

Wow. I haven't slept a wink and am starting a new job today.

Now I am going to teach my DCs how to behave around dogs owned by sane people who understand that their pets are not on an equal footing with humans.

Can't believe my uncle. What an asshole.

there

I think it is very unwise to cut off contact with family because of something so trivial. All large families have racist, snobbish and prejudiced members and it teaches the children to be accepting, that nobody is all good or all bad, and that we love family regardless.
By all means dont attend events where the dogs are loose. It is up to you to protect your children as you see fit, but when you say.... "I don't want them to come and see my DCs on their birthdays. I would prefer that they just forgot about ten rather than DD asking when we can see them" It shows that it is not the dogs that are the problem, but that you are in a huff because people wont do as you say.
They are entitled to their own opinions about the dogs. It is not necessary to stop contact in dog free situations.
Let them all come to you and hopefully it will all blow over.

I don't think YBU. I have a miniature JRT and he is a nightmare for snapping no matter what we try with him. I think we've spoiled him and now he snaps when he doesn't get his way.

DP and I have no plans to try for a baby for a couple of years but we've already agreed that we can't keep the dog if he's still like this when a DC arrives. I love my dog to bits but his snapping and growling has me at my wits end.